Gransnet forums

News & politics

Europe and D Day

(31 Posts)
Dinahmo Thu 06-Jun-19 19:32:33

Marie Scott, a DDay veteran and a recipient of the Legion D'Honneur was interviewed on Channel 4 News this evening. In addition to questions about her war time exploits she was also asked about her thoughts on the UK leaving Europe. She was a little reluctant to answer at first but she said the UK and the other countries had fought to save Europe and it was strange that they'd fought so hard to protect something that we are now leaving. She said that European culture was part of her and the she loved Europe and the UK.

I think that the majority of Remainers would agree with her and I wonder what the Leavers think

Whitewavemark2 Thu 06-Jun-19 19:35:21

I could write their answer for them😄

Blah blah sovereignty, blah blah free trade, blah blah immigrants, blah blah freedom

Bridgeit Thu 06-Jun-19 19:48:36

Come on you leavers, please tell us what you think .

Gonegirl Thu 06-Jun-19 19:59:19

Well I voted remain, but I don't understand that. The EU didn't exist in 1944. We will still be as much a part of Europe as we were then.

Gonegirl Thu 06-Jun-19 20:01:12

I'm sure if any country threatened the free world, we would still combine with them to fight them off.

Makes no sense.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 06-Jun-19 20:04:32

This is what Lt Col Merritt thinks of Brexit

Brexit worries me. What we went to so much trouble to do, to collect all the European big nations together, to break it all up now, would be a crying shame, I feel.”

Missfoodlove Thu 06-Jun-19 21:19:46

We are not leaving Europe.
We are leaving the European Union.

MaizieD Thu 06-Jun-19 22:24:50

One of the reasons I voted to stay in the then EC in 1975 was that I felt that Britain, although physically on the edge of Europe, was not really part of Europe; that given the history of Europe and our part in it we should be closer to our neighbours, particularly those we had fought against both recently (WW2) and in the past. I wanted us to feel European as well as British. Also, as a former, but declining, world power we needed to be at one with our neighbours.

Political union was an aspiration of the EC but I have always viewed that as us having a common interest in maintaining all our nations as free and independent democracies. No country can join the EU unless it can demonstrate that it is truly democratic as we understand the term (which is why Turkey has a long way to go before it is allowed to join the EU, even if it it would like to join the trading bloc). Despite all the Leaver rubbish about 'federal Europe' I don't think that it's even achievable as all the EU countries are proud and protective of their individual identities and no more wishful to become part of a 'European Federation' than the UK is.

I think that leaving the EU will isolate us and leave us feeling once again detached from Europeans who have become our friends and allies.

I suspect that this is a source of the sadness our veterans feel at the prospect of Brexit. They wanted Britain to be closer to heal the past differences and to lessen the chances of future war with our neighbours. After all, many of the people who voted to remain in 1975 had lived through their second experience of European war within their lifetimes.

I think we do them a disservice to ignore or belittle their feelings on the subject. They fought for freedom from fascism and wanted unity. I think their children have let them down...

Happiyogi Thu 06-Jun-19 22:59:10

I just wonder how having the so called "Leader of the Free World" sniffing round us like an asset stripper deciding what he is, or isn't interested in, equates to us "taking back control".

In the EU we are among equals. Equality is never on Trump's agenda.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 07-Jun-19 07:42:31

dinahmo that went well 😄😄😄

Clueless as to why they voted leave, clueless as to why they would continue to vote leave.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 07-Jun-19 07:56:35

Like you, Dinahmo, I watched that wonderful lady. Over the two days I have wondered, more and more why our country has succumbed to such negative, backward-looking, and I now feel, unpatriotic messages.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 07-Jun-19 08:24:32

But why Missfoodlove? Over the last two days we have celebrated our fight for Europe, our fight against extremism, our ability to work with those from outside like the Americans, but also all those working from the inside, giving their all to fight for our shared values. We are brothers and sisters when you get past the different languages. If there is something wrong with what we have now - and I agree, there are some big issues - then why are those that benefited from what came after the last war not fighting to be the change from within? It is not those who are rapidly approaching their own centenary, who fought for shared values once before, who voted to leave as far as I can see. They still show the same courage they did then.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 07-Jun-19 08:33:33

You can add my mother to those sentiments said by those folk. . At 100 she thinks the country is being totally misguided and forgetting everything we have strived and worked so hard for including making the ultimate sacrifice.

EllanVannin Fri 07-Jun-19 08:45:58

I agree with the speaker too-----straight into the arms of the USA !
Europe or the USA anyone ??

Brexit will definitely make for hostilities between Britain and Europe. What a sad state for the future.

Luckygirl Fri 07-Jun-19 08:54:24

We are part of Europe and always will be - we will just not be part of the EU. I see no reason for hostilities between Britain and Europe, which does not engage in hostilities with all its other neighbours. I suspect we may get on better when we are outside this official family with all its squabble.

Smileless2012 Fri 07-Jun-19 09:01:59

As a leave voter, I voted to leave the EU not Europe.

During WW2, countries came together to fight a common enemy before the EU existed.

"Brexit will definitely make for hostilities between Britain and Europe" why? Why does no longer wishing to be a part of an organisation which has changed beyond recognition to the one we originally joined have to result in hostility?

MrsEggy Fri 07-Jun-19 09:02:45

I don't know anyone over 80 (and I know quite a few) who voted to leave. Who started this tale that it was the older generation who wanted to leave?

EllanVannin Fri 07-Jun-19 09:12:48

I didn't want to leave for a variety of reasons. Unity being key !

Whitewavemark2 Fri 07-Jun-19 10:01:14

It is their children with very short memories who are sitting pretty on good pensions and who have no care for future generations who voted brexit.

Dinahmo Fri 07-Jun-19 10:33:05

Thank you all for your comments. It was good to read so many positive ones.

I agree with EllenVannin about unity being the key. Today the EU is fighting other battles - against climate change, trying to rein in the power of the multinationals and also trying to effect changes to corporate taxation. As part of the EU it seems to me that we are far stronger than being a small country standing alone. Instead of having MEPs like NF being disruptive, we should have been working for change. As a nation we have a proud history of invention and also as thinkers, trying to improve society for everyone but somewhere we have lost our way.

POGS Fri 07-Jun-19 14:22:05

The OP mentions :-

"she said the UK and the other countries had fought to save Europe and it was strange that they'd fought so hard to protect something that we are now leaving."
---

' IF' and when we leave the European Union we are NOT leaving Europe. How can we ever leave Europe? Say we are now on the Continent of Asia, Africa, we are a country situated on the Continent of Europe. The repeated mantra 'the UK is leaving Europe' is quite frankly a stupid comment.

What was being fought for in WW 2 was freedom from the tyranny of Hitler and Germany who had occupied countries in Europe, obvious. We knew that we were next on the list and fought not to stay in Europe, how on earth could we leave Europe but to save our skins from Hitler and the Nazi Party invasions. Even Hitler had he won WW2 could not have divided countries from being part of the Europe /European Continent.

The UK joined the EEC in 1973, we had been blocked from joining earlier by France, the European Union was formed in 1993 ( Maasterich Treaty) so we were not fighting to stay in the European Union we voted to leave an Institution formed in it's current form 26 years ago certainly not at the time of WW2.

Everytime I hear a typical comment ' The EU keeps us safe' and some go so far as to say our leaving could create another possible war, put the UK in a perilous position, I think they have lost the plot quite frankly. Why is it the UK being outside of the EU is viewed so differently to other European countries outside of the EU such as Switzerland, Iceland, Monoco, Norway? Are those countries in danger too? Will the EU single out the UK for attack?

The commemoration of the d day landings to be honest reminded me that whilst Europe was not in a political union during WW 2 the UK and other European countries came together to try and beat evil and not only European countries nations such as Australia, India, Canada etc.

If a country is under threat, for example Ukraine which is not in the EU, it will not be only countries in the EU that would do the right thing. Likewise if another European country tried to start a war, whether they be a member of the EU or not I believe countries in or out of the European Union would do the right thing.

I would be greatly concerned if NATO collapsed and I hope the countries in both NATO and the EU are never put into a position where they must decide where their loyalties lie and NATO is diminished but I do think that could become a distinct possibility when listening to some of the comments from ' some' in the EU. That to me is more of a concern than the UK leaving the EU if the sole point of the topic is defence and being put in danger.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 07-Jun-19 22:55:28

(Today 09:02) I don't know anyone over 80 (and I know quite a few) who voted to leave. Who started this tale that it was the older generation who wanted to leave?

The people posting here: - www.pensionersforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,20627.0.html are all older and could be said to fit the demographics produced to identify the overall characterisation of leave voters . This is quite tame as you have to registered to see the "politics" threads and have to have an additional password to see the "controversial" ones where all the posts the owner sees as racist, go. As far as I am aware all these people voted leave. In fact most on this site voted leave - it's quite hard to be a remain voter on there.

lemongrove Sat 08-Jun-19 08:24:42

Am with others who think that Marie Scott was quite wrong in her thinking, of course we are part of Europe! We weren’t in the EU when we went to the aid of Poland, France and anywhere threatened by Hitler, we were fighting for our own country too.
I love many countries within the EU but loved them before we were in the EU,it doesn’t make a jot of difference.
A lot of people in other European countries don’t like what the EU has become .
I expect Scott was put ‘on the spot’ by a journalist when she said this.

GabriellaG54 Sat 08-Jun-19 09:27:23

Germany is part of Europe so her evasive reply doesn't address the issue that 'other countries' ie: Poland Canada, USA, France were not fighting on the side of the Germans to 'save' Europe. That's pure unadulterated nonsense.
We in Britain were not hog-tied to Europe in 1939-45 as we are now.
We were and still are a beloved and mostly revered island.
Rule Britannia.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 08-Jun-19 09:29:44

😄😄😄