Let’s stop pretending the referendum was illegal eh?

I agree Opal we should just get on with it.
I actually voted to remain and was disappointed in the result, however I respect your, and everyone else’s, right to vote for what you (they) think is best. That is what a democracy is all about, and I accept the result. If the remain vote had won, I would have expected you to accept that!

Under those conditions if there was another vote, I would now vote leave as to ignore the original result is against my democratic principles! So, as I have already said, we should respect the result and leave as soon as possible!

Whether the vote was advisory, illegal or not, the vote exposed a single opinion. Of the people who voted, more than half were unhappy with our continued relationship with the EU. I wonder, if the vote was reversed, and remain had won, would the leavers quietly get back in their box and get on with their lives. I doubt it. The genie is now out of the bottle and a great division has been exposed in our society.

As lemongrove says, many many voters made up their minds years ago.

I get irritated with the assumption that we all woke up on voting day with no previous opinions or views and thought, “Oh, £350 million for the NHS, that's it then.”

The past three years have done little to change peoples minds,in fact I suspect many people have become more firmly entrenched in their view than they were three years ago.
Both sides have invested much into this situation. The leavers looking on in anger as the prospect of never escaping the ever closer union of the EU becomes less and less likely. The remainers hoping that it can all be kicked into the long grass and quietly forgotten.

Dark times whichever side you are on.

I have to agree that the opening argument has nothing whatsoever to do with the headline, nor is it an argument that proves the veracity of the referendum. It's not really an argument that proves anything. As for not blaming leave voters for the way they voted to completely change what our country is and stands for, it is either something they are responsible for or they lack the capacity to be responsible for their vote. Either way it was your votes. There is no one else.

The 3 posts following mine are so worrying in their complete contempt for the principles which should underlie a democratic vote. Coming 'first' in a corrupted referendum is not democratic.

A very small majority of the nation voted to leave built on lies, misinformation, sheer impossible situations and ignorance which they were fed and fell for No details were known about how to leave or the future when left either by the government or the general public and still isn’t we are as ignorant today as we were three years ago It was advisory only and would have stayed that way without the right wing media and moguls revving up the country to be frightened Fearful of immigrants ( who have for the most part played a big part in making a good country) fearful of Muslims fearful of Europe who we have been at peace with for 70+ years but once the Pandora’s box was opened it cannot be put to sleep so now we have a dreadful future for our children and grandchildren a fighting and jumpy nation with even families at war we have depression and doom and gloom and all for WHAT ? to leave somewhere where we were nicely jogging along far from perfect but definitely better than ok

Was the referendum illegal? - No
Was it conducted badly - Yes
Was it wise to hold it? - No
Was it meant to be advisory? - Yes
Is it a total pig's ear? - Yes

Oh Bluebell - What a gloomy sermon. You obviously have no idea of the aims and inner workings of the EU. Keeping to the status quo is the aim of many who cannot imagine there to be any sunshine on the reverse of the coin. Thank goodness we're not all pessimists.

Those who want a “second referendum”..............Erdogan has just had a second vote in Istanbul as he thought it was unjust.........result was his party lost by even more in the second vote.

The last three years has been nothing but School Yard politics by all sides.

The vitriol directed to those who have admitted to voting leave is in my opinion getting worse and more personal.

Whilst I have not witnessed the same from leavers to those who voted remain.

Whatever the decision this situation has to be finalised on/by 31st October 2019. Whether we leave or remain we just have to move on......the sun shall still rise, the rain will still arrive at the end of the school day, we will carry on living our lives to the best of our abilities.

Opal, do not understand your post. It does not matter if people complain about it being illegal, at all ...

It does matter if it is PROVEN to be illegal, and in more ways than one, by our very own independent Commission, with clear evidence.

I do hope you can see the difference - and why some of us will never respect results won on fraud- especially now that we are so much more aware of the consequences, for the country as a whole, for farmers, for industry and its workers, for the NHS, and so much more - and especially our young people. I want to be able to look them in the eyes, my kids, grandkids, nephews and nieces, and young friends and say ' I did everything I could to stop this madness'. They are all distraught to know their parents voted leave.

‘Distraught’ .??
Pah! The sky isn’t going to fall in people. ....
Such hyperbole about being able to look others in the eye.

Yes, you’re all upset the vote didn’t go as you wanted.
It was probably a shock to some (including the Establishment) but it’s time to crack on and get this done now.

3 long years have given Remainers false hope and I think the frustration that, even with the MP’s in huge numbers on their side, we are still about to exit the EU has made some Remainers even crosser (if that were possible!).

lucky ??

Pah! The sky isn’t going to fall in people. ...

Just because it hasn't disturbed your comfortable world, Ug, doesn't mean it hasn't happened, or is about to happen, to others.

And we still have no idea how 'leaving' is going to improve our lives. How is it going to improve yours, Ug. Are you suddenly going to develop an empathy bone?

Was it conducted fraudulently by the leave campaign? Yes

I do hope that voters remember in the next general election what their elected MP’s stance has been in Parliament over this!
If he/she has continually blocked leaving, whereas their constituents had voted to leave, they have failed in their duty to represent those who put them in power and should suffer the consequences.
Remember, we are still supposed to be a democracy and current actions on the EU do not represent that!

Why do Remainers seem to thrive on ‘worst case scenarios’ when no one knows yet how bad (or dare I say good?) things might end up.

I just think some people are pessimists.

Lemon I agree with you "many had made their minds up years before." That is what is so worrying. They made up their minds with no idea of the consequences.

GG13 I cannot agree with you that "The vitriol directed to those who have admitted to voting leave is in my opinion getting worse and more personal.

Whilst I have not witnessed the same from leavers to those who voted remain." It seems quite the opposite to me especially on Twitter.

I still haven't seen any reasons why I should want to leave on any SM.

I am sure if the referendum was illegal (which it wasn't) as some posters keep saying, the result to leave would have been declared null and void long ago, Remainers have just every other trick in the book.
Just accept we are going to leave.

Why do Remainers seem to thrive on ‘worst case scenarios’ when no one knows yet how bad (or dare I say good?) things might end up

I think this is your lack of knowledge showing rather than your implied negative attitude of the people who are concerned.

I find those leavers putting their point forward are perfectly capable of reading and absorbing words like "up to" or "within a range from a to z". Even some of what you might call positive expert opinions aren't that good are they?

I suppose it depends where you want to get your information from. If I was ill I would rather get a prognosis from a doctor than my next door neighbour or a politician. I do believe in reading expert advice properly but getting it from you or the unicorn lovers would not be where I would choose to go for detail and information.

FC123: 'I am sure if the referendum was illegal (which it wasn't) as some posters keep saying, the result to leave would have been declared null and void long ago, '

just wondering, do you ever read other people's posts?

The reason why the Electoral Commission was unable to cancel the vote, despite clear and multiple evidence of severe fraud - has been explained several times on various posts.

That's a matter of opinion, the actual referundum vote on the 23rd June 2016 was not illegal.

No, it is not a matter of opinion. It is the finding of the official Government body that investigates electoral fraud- it was not illegal, as such - it became so due to multiple and proven fraud.

All the posts from leavers on this thread are polite......not so some of the remainer posts! Says it all, really.
Good posts Chucky and Opal

nonnie it’s not worrying at all ( that many had made up their minds years before) it simply shows they had thought about it well before the referendum, and I include both leavers and remainers in that scenario.

"They made up their minds with no idea of the consequences"

And just what WILL the consequences be, Nonnie? Please list these 'certainties'.

Devastation all round? I think not.

Let's face it, when we joined the Common Market we had absolutely no idea that it would morph into the EU and cost us £39,000,000,000 every single year to be part of it.

Everyone I speak to, Remainer or Leaver just wants to get on with it now.

As for 'a rift' in the country, that is massively hyped up by remainers or those who take part in discussions online or the bias of media reports. (Look at Gransnet, for example - the political discussions on here are NOTHING like the way in which I communicate with my Remainer friends face to face!)

Our trading relationship with the EU will resume, when we finally Leave and give it a chance to become established on different terms. Hopefully the bitterness will subdue then.

lemong 'All the posts from leavers on this thread are polite......not so some of the remainer posts! Says it all, really.'

please do give one example of an 'unpolite' post by a remainer on this thread? Please.