Women footballers-inequali ty and attitudes

Er?

No it's not sexist to think that women can do things better than men have. It is the ultimate argument against the patriarchy and society as it is run today where the mores remain the same although some superficial things have changed. Men can of course be equal and participate.

I think that is sexist rubbish, trisher!!

What happened to equality?

my argument is that if women play this game not only should they play it better than men, but that they should greet success with aplomb and modesty

Eh? Isn't that a bit sexist?

Thanks for adding the comments I hadn't read, trisher but I still don't think Phil Neville or any of the England team have done or said anything out of order.

Grandad I missed the Argentinian match but well done to their team!

In fact I'm not that interested in football (dipped in and out of the quarter-finals match) but may well be watching the semi-finals!

rafichagran I agree.

The Cameroon women were a disgrace. This is football, a game. Why should Phil Neville not comment on their vile behaviour, The spitting, the fouling, the intimidation of the officials.
The England women are over there to win not comment on the inequalities of the Cameroon. That sort of behaviour is never acceptable in football, male or female.
Let's support the England team. Cameroon are were they should be, on the plane home.

Day 6 my argument is that if women play this game not only should they play it better than men, but that they should greet success with aplomb and modesty and should accept the failings of others without condemning them,because women have and still do face adversity and inequality and should stand together. And men (as exampled by Phil Neville) still regard them as being different and have double standards.

LazyGirl - Great girls. They definitely show up our male team.

Not taking anything away from the girls, but I think you'll find that the men also reached their World Cup semi-final last year. (Disclaimer, I am a man, last time I looked).

Apologies should be Cameroon above not Cameron....I think.grin

Ha ha Grandad!

Your spell-checker is probably more used to providing you with 'Cameron', maybe followed by a few well-chosen adjectives?

Have just checked. Yes, we are on the News and Politics forum

Apologies should be Cameroon above not Cameron....I think.

My speech recognition app does not seem to know the difference in that one. ?

I have already in this thread condemned the behaviour of the Cameron team, and i will repeat that whatever the position of the support those women receive from that countries football authority that cannot be allowed to be reflected in their attitude while on the pitch.

I believe that the above was proven by the attitude and performance of the Argentinian team, which one of the BBC television anchor team spoke on. In that, the Argentinian women team members were given their air flights and hotel accommodation plus two meals per day. Added to that they received £10.00 per day plus an additional £10.00 on the day if they actually play in a match.

As everyone will no doubt appreciate £10.00 (or its equivalent in Euros) will not take anyone very far in Paris. However, those women had a fantastic attitude on the pitch and gave it everything they had in the three matches they played in before being knocked out. They have gone home to statements of great credit, while the Cameron team have returned home to thoroughly deserved condemnation from all the African football authorities.

However, the above is now "water under the bridge" in terms of this tournament, and England are in the semifinals and in doing that have lifted the whole country. So, let's all get behind them when they play in that match on Tuesday evening with everybody cheering them to the hills in the ground, in the pubs or their homes.

Footballs Coming Home By Way Of Englands Lionesses.

For all thse who have supported Phil Neville's condemnations how do you feel about his double standards?
The men’s game is, of course, not held to this standard. Dirty tackles, abuse of the referee, and general disrespect for the laws of the game are fairly standard at all levels of men’s soccer across the world.

But don’t take my word for it, take it from ... Phil Neville! Apparently it did not bring the entire sport of football into disrepute when he intentionally fouled players hard. In the 2018 documentary The Feud — Ferguson vs. Wenger, Neville recalled a match in which him and his brother Gary played dirty to intimidate an Arsenal player.

“They had a young Spanish winger called Jose Antonio Reyes and we literally kicked him off the park,” Neville said.
Apparently it's OK but not for Cameroon girls!

Trisher, your argument seems to be that incivilty and lack of sportsmanship and grace can be excused, because it's coming from women from Cameroon.

That is tarring the people of Cameroon with a pretty mucky brush. On a football field the rules are the same for all, no matter where the players come from. If they are unaware of the rules and indulge in unsporting behaviour they really should be prepared to expect the criticism coming their way.

Someone in Cameroon ought to be saying that they did not represent their country in a favourable light. By the same token, if that IS its best light (The Guardian's excuse for their behaviour) those women have blighted their nation.

Their sporting standards have to improve and I hope someone responsible enough in Cameroon can ensure those women learn fast, because I am sure the sport provides an excellent way for these women, many of them deprived, to travel, see the world, compete, and carry the torch for their country. It's an honour, after all.

I'm afraid I've got to agree with the majority too, trisher, especially GrannyGravy13's point above. The women won't ever get support and respect from the authorities and public at home if they can't show that they can play a fair game. And I don't think Neville's comments were extreme - he was obviously upset after seeing his players barged into, trampled and (what was for me the worst) spat on. The whole debacle will, I'm sure, have put some girls off the idea of football.

I haven't even heard about fights in the hotel.

trisher the Cameroon players were appalling, the England Manager stated the truth.

The Cameroon team played a "dirty" game, they could have played fair and square and been an example for young girls in their home country to look up to!!! They might have garnered respect from the "men" at home and shown them that a career in football is something for their daughters to aim for.

They choose to disgrace themselves instead.

I HAVEN'T SAID ENGLAND SHOULDN"T HAVE WON!!!!!
I HAVE said that winning could be done with what was once described as sportsmanship but in this case I would prefer to call female solidarity, because if we are to play what has for the last 70 years been a purely male sport then let us do it appreciating our hard won freedoms and acknowledging that other countries do not have the same freedoms and let our women behave towards other women with the true spirit of sisterhood even when those women have not behaved well.
merlotgran apologies the quotes were not in the link I posted. I just assumed most would have heard them
The coach said I sat through 90 minutes of football and felt ashamed," he told a news conference. "I was proud of performances, under circumstances I've never seen before. I'm completely and utterly ashamed of the opposition

I didn't enjoy the game. My players didn't enjoy the game, apart from getting to the quarterfinals. England -- we had five, six, seven million people watching England play an international game against Cameroon with that kind of behaviour

My players kept their concentration fantastically, but those images are going out worldwide about how to act, the young girls playing all over the world that are seeing that behaviour. For me, it's not right

My daughter wants to be a footballer and if she watches that she will think: 'No, I want to play netball.' I think it's pretty sad. I can't gloss over it and fudge it, and I've got to tell the truth to everybody.
He also made references to fights in the hotel.
I think his comments will be very damaging for the Cameroon team and it is ironic that he should mention his daughter. Many men in Cameroon would not allow their daughter to play football, but I suppose he never even thought about that.

Cameroon did not play fair, England abided by the rules.

Or would you rather England let them win, didn't acknowledge their blatant disregard of the rules just because their opponents were from a disadvantaged country - really!!

I've read the article twice, trisher and can't find the comments you're referring to. Can you copy and paste them?

Of course they have to play by the rules Jabberwok Really are people so dim they can't understand the difference between winning with grace and crowing (note the word has masculine links because it is a masculine attitude). But actually you have in some ways highlighted the differences between the two teams. Ours are well-trained women with a background in equality and privilege, when they play a team of women who have had to fight to be footballers and who are sometimes castigated because of this they should acknowledge the efforts of those women even if it is only through keeping silent and telling their coach to do the same.

What's difficult about observing the rules of a game without resorting to bullyboy tactics and tantrums in order to win? Surely during their training they would have been made aware of the high standards of behavior that are required? Wouldn't making excuses for this team be rather patronising? Surely it's better that they be treated like any other team and have it made clear that spitting, pushing and shoving is not acceptable and won't be tolerated by any team. You opt to play with the big girls then you have to play by the rules, or if you feel you can't then don't join in!

merlotgran read the comments made afterwards. There was simply no need for them, as has been said the infringements made by the Cameroon team were obvious. A small remark acknowledging the differences and difficulties would have been so much better. Winning is fine, crowing about it and slagging off the losers is unnecessary

Our women should realise this and acknowledge the difficulties the Cameroon team has encountered. If women play football they don't have to take on men's attitudes.

I really don't get your point, trisher. The England team were restrained despite constant provocation. What else could they have done, let them win?

The Cameroon team should have accepted the referee's decisions especially as they were backed up by VAR. Their behaviour was unacceptable. How do you know the English women football players didn't understand where their sister players were coming from. This was a football match not a political platform.

I HAVEN'T excused any behaviour. I HAVE asked that English women football players behave as women first and footballers second and understand where their sister players are coming from.

It's football, not politics.

Plenty sportspeople have huge hurdles to get over in order to reach their goals (sports puns aplenty). But that in itself does not excuse the awful behaviour of the Cameroon team. Spitting, stamping, elbowing, arguing etc. Our women footballers have behaved very well indeed and I am happy that they will be roll models for young girls like my granddaughters who are sports mad.