Can they have it both ways - BMA

This was in Scotland so maybe you're right about that, Suziewoozie.

All I know is that whenever we've been to America, or anywhere outside the EU, but particularly the US, we have to take out medical insurance for squillions should it be required, I wouldn't dare travel without it.

TerriBull I agree but every year there are stories in the press about raising money for some tourist to pay their medical bills/ fly them home because they didn’t take out insurance. I don’t know how they dare - plus in some countries if you are not insured the care you would get might be very second rate

I think we need to get some perspective over this. The motion at the conference means little in terms of changes to NHS policy and is likely more a case of the doctors shaking their fists at the government for the shortages in funding and the oppressive way they were treated by Jeremy Hunt. Doctors cannot be expected to decide who is and isn't to receive treatment, it is contrary to the Hippocratic Oath apart from anything else, BUT, I do agree that there should be some attempts to bill home countries when a foreign national uses the NHS when in the UK. As for the African woman with triplets, she must have either concealed the pregnancy or given birth very prematurely because most airlines do not let you fly beyond a certain stage of pregnancy. Some other stories though, are just that, stories, printed in the predictable newspapers to stir up ill feelings. It is a very difficult job to ask if someone is entitled to NHS treatment; would you ask the West Indian man and then discover he has been living here for 60 years since he came over on the Windrush and has paid tax and NIC all his life? Would you ask the Romanian woman with emergency gall stones and then find out that she is actually a theatre nurse in the NHS (happened to my daughter's friend). Not a judgement I would like to make!

EllanVannin I didn't know that you can pick up a medicard as a visitor.

We do have a reciprocal arrangement with Australia for emergency treatment (having had to receive some once); anything routine would have to be paid for and any emergency that would cost more than a quick visit to A&E would have to be paid for, hence it is essential to take out travel insurance.

I wonder if they are doing this because of the administration involved which could take up much of their time?

I think if you have lived outside the UK for a certain number of years then yes, you would have to pay to visit the GP.

Callistemon If you are in receipt of a British state pension and you live abroad you are still entitled toNHS treatment here on the same basis as someone who permanently resides in the UK.

Whilst resident in Spain we were entitled to treatment on their NHS. However, when attending hospital we had to take our passport and our Spanish Health card and it was always inspected at reception. If we hadn't had them we would have been presented with a bill. I really don't see why we can't do the same here.

Thanks, Framilode, actually I was thinking more of younger people born here but who live abroad, coming bck to visit family and perhaps falling sick. I think they have to pay even if they had paid a stamp for many years before they left.

GillT57 and Sassenach If you are thinking of the Nigerian woman, she had quintuplets, not triplets and, of course, they needed special care, as did she. She came earlier in her pregnancy as a visitor and stayed with a relative so benefited from the NHS through most of the pregnancy.

No, we are not the International Health Service; the vast majority of us would take out travel insurance before going overseas and not even rely on our EHIC.

It is not up to the BMA to decide but if the Government has intent to charge those who should pay then they must set up proper systems to do so. The NHS cannot afford this.

Callistemon, yes I kept one medicard which I'd used. GP visits/consultations were charged for but I was reimbursed partly at any post office when I showed my card and GP letter.
Unfortunately I had to be treated for a water infection as I was in agony so used my D's GP there a most delightful Egyptian doctor.
It cost me about 18AUD for the prescription which wasn't refundable.

Maybe because I was staying for 3 months and classed as a temporary resident.

During a heated exchange over health tourism, one GP claimed that NHS identity checks not only put patients off seeking help but claimed "people have died" as a result.

After one doctor told the British Medical Association's conference that charging migrants for accessing NHS services was a "fundamentally racist endeavour,” Nick Ferrari spoke to one GP on the issue.

Dr Helen Salisbury said she supported the statement, telling LBC that recently the rules were "really tightened up," with NHS "charging managers" looking around for wards for patients who needed to be charged.

The GP said in some places the charging managers were "demanding people's passports" when they turned up at A&E.

The experienced doctor said she asked "on what basis" were they asking for ID, adding "is it because they don't look British in some way?"

Describing identity checks as the "thin end of the wedge" she asked if they were going to check the passport of everybody.

Claiming that "people have been "deterred from having care," and shockingly saying "people have died as a result of these rules."

1000s of expats living in the EU and outside use the NHS when on holiday 'back home' - using a relative's address. Some for extensive and expensive treatment and operations, before going back to their new abode abroad.

And a high proportion of those ex pats will still pay tax in UK and be in receipt of a UK state pension, Jura2.

I agree payment should be made by all those people not entitled to NHS care but to do that would mean an overhaul of the current system. Doctors, Nurses etc should not be expected to deal with what is in effect an administrative matter.

All your views have been interesting and many valid points made - I think my original thought was that if doctors are the ones to decide that all and sundry are treated in our hospitals regardless of entitlement, then they can hardly complain about underfunding - or can they!

sodapop I agree with your second paragraph, although,I don't know much about ex-pats who pay tax here, presumably on their pensions, so can't comment on that, except that if they pay tax they should be able to use the services which they pay for.

This is money that could be used for treatment which is at present being denied to people resident in the UK, including children.

sodapop 'And a high proportion of those ex pats will still pay tax in UK and be in receipt of a UK state pension, Jura2. '

I am of course fully aware of this- as it is our case. Currently, and since recently, UK retirees in the EU are entitled to NHS treament in the UK. Until recently they were not - and yet came to the UK for expensive treatment and operations fraudulently- using a relative's address. Those of us who live in the EU know of many cases where this happened, against the rules and law.

This right, will of course, be lost again in case of No Deal Brexit.

If they have lost those rights then they should not have to pay UK tax, but tax in their country of residence.

Why does anybody think this is a good decision? We are forever being asked to fundraise for children to have treatment in the US, but are quite happy to provide NHS treatment free to those from overseas.

Callistemon - the vast majority of expats pay tax in their country of residence. Those who were in the Forces or Police pay in UK. Of course no-one has an idea of what will happen post Brexit, especially if No-Deal.

But that made no difference, until recently, to the right of using NHS when resident abroad.

Aepgirl - it’s a conference motion so won’t change anything. Most coverage I’ve seen doesn’t think it’s a good idea and thinks we should improve our systems for ensuring overseas visitors pay. Somewhere in all this is the difference between a genuine tourist/visitor who has a health emergency and someone who comes deliberately to seek healthcare for a pre-existing condition. I don’t understand how the latter get treatmen.

Have those visiting our NHS country never heard of medical insurance?

Sarah that’s a bit of a sweeping statement and probably a bit unfair.

In hospital in Greece at the moment and my EHIC card has been accepted for my care. Will see if I get a bill at the end but to be honest, just so grateful for the treatment I don’t care!

sarah - medical insurance is not available generally to people from 3rd world countries ... and neither is it available for those who have pre-existing conditions, especially if severe, and especially if elderly.

So, let's imagine your parents have lived abroad most of their lives- and one of them needs treatment that is not available where they live- would you be tempted to sneak them in, perhaps?

I am NOT justifying it - and I have been shocked in the past at the number of expats living abroad who said 'oh I am going back to the UK to have my hip replacement- will be using our daughter's address' etc, etc. But as children, parents, grandparents - I can imagine how sometimes one would put the life of a loved one above the law- somehow.