Boris says Oz ‘points system’ coming here.

I do not understand how this system would help, given that many of the people we most require are not in high points jobs - farm workers, carers, nurses, in junior roles. None of whom are likely to meet any points or salary minimums.

I agree with the ponts system, we need skilled workers. Drs and nurses etc,its the unskilled who come and live off benefits we dont want, it is hard enough for our own people to live comfortably ,
Immigration need controlling

Thank you Stella1949. I do know a little about it but will try and find out more over the next few weeks while by son and his family are over from Australia. He is quite a useful source for me as he has the comparison with UK politics.

Ellen's post shows the complexity of the system as does suziewoozie's. I wonder if the grumpy old men, whose posts I read with great despair because of their shallow xenophobia, will still be rooting for this when they hear of the tax breaks "immigrants" can receive under the Australian system. The second problem is that we already have a system but we have run it appallingly badly; why would we be any better at running any this one? Thirdly we will all be fishing in the same pool for a finite number of the highly skilled (apparently the only ones Boris wants). Fourth, well let's stop here for a moment shall we.

I am all in favour of a system which is transparent and workable but you come back each time to the calibre of those who we hope could run it. I am not convinced, simply because of the quality of those wanting to be "king", that changing the system is all we need. Although my grumpy old men may be. Simple rhetoric goes a long way with them.

Thumbs up m0nica.

Blondnana - we already have lots of doctors and nurses coming from abroad - our current system allows for that. Non eu citizens cannot claim benefits as a general rule and I think have to have a job to come to - I’m sure someone better versed in our current system will correct me if necessary

Opal are you referring just to the Australian system of permanent immigration?

Other workers can apply for short-term working visas, business visas etc, and even tourists have to have a visa.

They have just relaxed the rules and are allowing people under 35 to apply for a third one-year working visa, but a certain length of time has to be spent on farm work before a 2nd year visa is granted.
Presumably they need more young workers/tax payers at the moment.

At one time retired people had to have quite a substantial sum of money before emigrating to Australia, plus close relatives who were citizens there too. I understood you had to be able to pay for your own healthcare.

What are the tax breaks the Australian government gives to immigrants, please?
I have never heard of that.
I do know that any pension contributions which the Australian employer has to pay for temporary workers get refunded to the worker when they leave the country which seems rather unfair on the employer.

The way I look at it, our ‘system’ is not fit for purpose and hasn’t been for years. Our politicians have been too soft!

I think we need to monitor those coming in and out of the country before changing anything. Admittedly I only know what the media says but it does seem fairly easy to get into the UK and overstay visas. We had someone working on a visa on a scheme for highly qualified people but she was doing a mundane job. Her visa ran out and she asked me to write and say she was vital to the company, she wasn't. She was quite upset with me and said her friends all got the company to write such a letter. Her appeal failed. She was lovely but I felt it important to follow the rules.

I have been to the ceremony for becoming a British Citizen and there were people there who didn't speak English which made me feel they hadn't made enough effort.

I a not anti-immigration, I think it is a good thing but I do think we need to control the process better.

I don't understand you feeling like a second class citizen EllanVannin surely the Syrian people are being offered a safe place to live where they not suffering the horrific effects of war. That's quite a separate thing from people emigrating for a better life or to be with family.
You certainly went through a terrible period in your life at that time, I hope you are able to be happy now and enjoy your grandchildren etc.

Callistemon* I'll ask. They land on Monday so it won't be before then.

Actually this is not the case. It is not possible to sponsor a parent for a remaining relative visa. There are various types of parent visas and unless you can afford it there is an option for which the waiting list is around 30 years. Otherwise it means forking out tens of thousands of pounds for a Contributor Parent Visa, and the wait for this if you applied today is 6-8 years. In addition your UK pension will be frozen at the rate you are receiving it when you arrive in Australia. So it is not a simple matter for a parent to emigrate to Australia.

ThanksGracesgran
I'm sure DD2 would like to know if she doesn't already.

Sorry this was in response to Stella1949's comment about EllenVannin being able to emigrate as a remaining relative.

I think to go to live permanently in Australia you also have to pass a strict medical.

The points based system is good because government can award more points for skills we need like doctors and nurses but less points for skills we already have plenty of and very few points for unskilled people. Points can also be awarded on age and if have a UK spouse. We should also adopt the strict medical pass for permanent residence.

I have been watching the BBC 2 series about the factory - it follows the manufacture of everyday things: sausages, biscuits, mayo - it is very interesting. But what is very clear is that the majority of the factory workers are E European - so be careful Boris, or I will not get my much loved mayonnaise!

I think immigration has to have a positive effect, and it does here, mostly.

I really do not understand a policy which allows unemployed, illiterate, unskilled people into the UK as they will need homing, feeding and benefits. That is a drain on the taxpayer and the infrastructure of the country. To be provided for without contributing is wrong. Wouldn't we all like that set-up?

I appreciate it is humane and proper to offer shelter and safety to asylum seekers and people who are persecuted and I am glad we can do that but even then there should be obligations to (in time) find work and try to become self-sufficient. I know of immigrant families who do just that.

I dislike the cradle to grave UK welfare system that is exploited by some. One wonders why so many people (mainly young men) are camping out in Calais to try to enter the UK illegally. Our lax system has to be one of the reasons why.

From the Telegraph email, this morning, in a paragraph describing this as Johnson "reviving Vote Leaves Australian-style, points-based immigration system. They describe it as "light on detail".

The proposal is nothing new in UK politics, and something similar was attempted a decade ago for non-EU migrants. But the efficacy of such a system is questionable. Australia and Canada, two pioneers of points-based immigration, have had to make big changes but still find that migrants are more likely to be unemployed than locals. The Government, it turns out, isn’t good at picking workers on behalf of businesses.

And, as the critics were pointing out yesterday, having a points-based system says nothing about your actual objectives. Canada, for example, has more than double the migration rate per capita of the UK.

It also points to an article in the Economist here: www.economist.com/international/2016/07/07/whats-the-point It's a long article and some of it's behind a paywall. I will try and precis it later but this was its theme I would say.

“There’s something deep in the British psyche about the Australian system,” says Mr Byrne. But points-based immigration regimes look most attractive from a distance. The countries that invented them concluded some time ago that they are flawed, and have tweaked them radically. They have also discovered that points systems do not completely cure xenophobia."

Day6 - it seems to me there are 3 separate issues here. The first one is about refugees, asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. The problems around these groups are nothing to do with points systems. The second group are EU citizens and when Tony Blair did not put in the controls he could have done when the EU expanded, this group massively expanded. We are stuck now with the results of that but when we leave the EU, they will not be a separate category. Then the third group are non-EU migrants who have the system I’ve linked to applied to them. This group,of course will eventually include all would be migrants from all countries.

It seems, reading the Economist article that, while the Australian and Canadian points-based systems appeared to be the answer they created at least as many problems as they solved.

They had to be changed so that points including job-offers always outweighed those who did not have an offer. There are also other issues for employers who get enmeshed in the trivia of the bureaucracy. Looking at the recent Tory past I can imagine we would be good at that.

The concluding paragraph summed it up:

"A simple immigration system that attracts global talent, calms the natives and gives businesses the workers they crave seems an impossible dream. Perhaps it is also a foolish one. Governments cannot know what kind of immigrants their economies will require because they do not know how their economies will evolve. There will always be special pleading and exceptions. As Mr Byrne puts it: “Migration systems are complicated because people are complicated.”

So it seems we are unicorn hunting, yet again.

Australian points system won't work here ! Put that thought on the back-burner for another 30 years.

You need X-amount of money.
Be in good health with no ongoing problems or infectious diseases.
Have a job and accommodation prepared.
A trade is needed.
No criminal record.
No drugs.
It helps to have family who have citizenship.

Centrelink will only provide benefit after 3 years. Their version of the DWP.

I should have added that you have to become a citizen first before you're allowed to claim anything.

Risk deportation if found involved with criminal activities.

In preparation for Brexit the government asked its Migration Advisory Committee to report on the economic and social aspects of EU migrants to the UK. They found that in 2016/17 the average UK base EU migrant contributed approximately £2300 pa more to UK public finances than the average UK adult.

Around the time of the referendum there was a series of programmes on BBC about unemployment in East Anglia and jobs being taken by immigrants. The programme focused on unskilled workers, mainly young. The Brits were given job opportunities and, if they succeeded, they would be given a job. Only one person was given the opportunity of a job because the others, quite frankly, were a waste of space. These are some of the jobs that they were given

1. Harvesting asparagus - the young man was shown the size of spears he should pick and he picked everything but the correct size.
2. A Young man living at home with his mother refused to turn up for the job offered and, supported by his mother, stayed at home playing computer games. Both of the moaned about immigration
3. Two men who claimed to have earned £780 per week on road mending/building were asked to place 10 bags of potatoes into the green supermarket crates. They couldn't manage that, varying between 9 and 12 bags.
4. A skilled builder (I've forgotten his trade) went to work for a man who bought properties and did them up for letting. His work force, including his manager, were European but the English builder didn't like to be told what to do by the manager. He could have had a job had he been more amenable.

There are more examples but all the companies involved used EU workers because they had a much better work ethic.

When the subject of social care for the elderly came up someone on Jeremy Vine this morning said that the wages should be increased. But, how much do we expect to pay people for that social care. IMO they should be paid a very good salary - say £40k full time - because it's not exactly pleasant work. But imagine the outcry from the lower ranks of skilled, trained workers at that level of pay.

Finally, in Boston Lincs, at around the same time various professionals were interviewed about immigrants. An head teacher said that her funding was OK for the numbers of immigrant children and if she need more (because of languages) she would be able to get it. A local GP said that his practice saw few immigrants because they were healthy and working. Sadly it's the elderly who take up the time and money