Is this the face of fascism?

lemon you aren’t even correct in you post.

Do buck up.

lemon cloud cuckoo land.

I think, had we stayed in the EU that our government would at some point down the line cave in to the EU’s demands regarding federalism.
Certainly, Italy and Austria and Poland are against it, but they aren’t the strongest EU members.
Merkel and Macron are all for it and happily backed the creation of a ‘real’ EU army in 2018.
Junker takes credit for the idea, but it has been rolling around for a while now.
Ursula der Leyen the German defence minister and now part of the EU commission is on record as wanting a federal state of Europe.
It certainly has been discussed and is not some urban fantasy.Yes, countries would have to agree to it, but if Germany and France want it enough you can well imagine
The arm twisting that will take place, the sweeteners offered to member countries etc until it does happen.

Now that we are leaving the EU of course, it will make it harder for them to push for it

Why would that be, lemon? I thought that our leaving the EU was going to make it easier for them. You seem to be implying that our government was gung ho, full steam ahead, for a United States of Europe...

Anyway,as WWMK2 says, there are few, if any EU member states that have any desire for it. And Cameron had got an opt out for the UK, to be written into treaty.

Oh dear lemon I would save yourself the trouble. You are wrong in suggesting that it will happen in the near future. They have no appetite for it.

It has certainly been a subject of discussion, but as far as the U.K. is concerned it has always been an irrelevance as we would opt out.

Simples ?

Peeps......it has been talked about within the EU in the last few years, I will look it up.
Now that we are leaving the EU of course, it will make it harder for them to push for it, but it certainly has been an aspiration.

All this was said before the referendum.

Remember the idiots who said it was all project fear? Fools the lot of them.

And of course there’s the jobs that will be lost and those already lost. Together with the lose of revenue both from paye and company tax NI etc.

Here is an article about US influences supporting far-right action in Europe. www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/07/10/the-american-dark-money-behind-europes-far-right/

Of course in our calculation of individual lose in the case of a no deal, or even possibly a deal, we have not included the fact of a recession and the lose experienced by the individual, in this scenario.

Astounded to hear Hammond declare “in a no deal the EU will control what will happen in Calais” ???????

It would seem then lemon the “EU Commission people” are those you think have talked about a Federal State. But If you think that, then you are misunderstanding how it all works.

I find that is so true of brexiters, including so many of the dim politicians, including the next PM.

Oh come on lemon you are better than that. I did not expect, over 3 years later to hear scare mongering and anti EU titttle tattle and fake stories from you. Are you getting so desperate to defend your decision? You'll be quoting EU rules about bendy bananas and telling us that 15million Turks are on their way, all planning on claiming benefits. I always had you in my mind as one of the more rational considered and less 'cult" Brexit voters

lemon perhaps you could quote where you get that information. I am thinking if Merkal, Macron, Rutte and others have said.

Who have said otherwise?

There is no appetite for a United or federal EU.

But even if it happened 1million to 1 chance - we would in all probability opt out.

As we have done for other stuff.

Oh I think there is every intention of there being a United States Of Europe including an EU army.This has already been talked about by various EU Commission people.
We are a great country in or out of the EU.

I think what many leavers do not put into the equation, is the amount every individual benefits from being a member every time they shop for food, buy a car, benefit from scientific research - it goes on and on. The value of those benefits must be absolutely immense, and I suspect far outnumber what we pay.

The average amount each individual pays to the EU is about £32 per annum or 61p per week.

If there is a no deal our food will immediately go up by 20%. According to the good industry leaders.

So mine will go up £120 + 20% = £2.40 per week.

Include all the other tariffs and we will be paying far more than we do now.

I know you wouldn't believe it but there is no intention for there to be a United States of Europe. Who or what convinced you that there would be?

I'm afraid there is no agreeing to disagree as our opinions, however far from the truth they are, alter other people's lives. You are one of the "if only". If only we could leave the EU things would be better" but you can never factually tell us how it would be "better". I think we are a great country. Why don't you?

I'll agree to disagree. I don't want to be in the EU club, the ever growing United States of Europe, I want the UK to decide where we spend our money and no I don't want to subsidise poorer members because I don't want to be a member, that's why I and 17.5 million voted to Leave.

I wonder if you have ever belonged to a club Firecracker? Let's think about a golf club. People are employed and paid. Buildings maintained and contracts with suppliers, etc., made for your benefit. There may be a case that, to encourage the neighbours to join so they are positive and cooperative they are offered a discounted rate to join the club. Another group, including you, may get a smaller discount or refund because of what you bring to the club. Perhaps those who need help now and will help the club in the future - members children perhaps - may be given free membership which comes partly from your fee. It may even be going back to your own children. All these things are done in your interest and agreed by an elected committee and you pay a fee for it.

Why would you expect to get it all back?

Firecracker the same old tired arguments about getting 'our own money back'. Sigh. When you are part of a group, a nation, a commonwealth of countries if you wish, there will always be some who pay more than others, chiefly because, in the case of the EU, we are one of the wealthier countries and it is in our interests to help other countries to improve their standards of schools, hospitals, industries or whatever. Nobody anywhere gets what back only what they put in, some win, some lose. There will always be some who receive more from the state in terms of education, health, use of motorways or whatever, than others. I am fortunate to not have needed, so far, much from the NHS for example, and I do not begrudge those who do need more. I may not have expressed this clearly, but basically, being a member of a club is not just about making a profit, or getting back what you put in financially.

But it is our money they are giving back to us.
In 2018 we paid the EU 13 billion and got back just 4 billion.

Ever since we joined the EU, the media have reported all kinds of legislation as caused by EU bossiness. Some of it was completely made-up when there was a shortage of real news - regulations on the shape of bananas and so on.

Successive governments have hidden behind the EU when they wanted to pass things that they thought would be unpopular, and taken credit for anything built or provided with EU grants.

In some countries, EU-funded projects have large billboards proclaiming where the money for them came from. Not here. To find out "What has the EU ever done for us?" you have to search for the facts.

Put your postcode into the searchbox at www.myeu.uk/ and see on the interactive map what your area has received. You will probably be amazed. OK, the site was set up by Best for Britain, a Remain-backing pressure group, but facts are facts - and can be verifed if you doubt them.

What the EU is NOT good at is explaining things in everyday language.

For instance: "In 2017, the EU provided THE BIKE PROJECT £43,613 as part of the Fostering inclusive, innovative and reflective European societies (08.02.03.06) programme.

"This grant was from the EU budget centrally administered by the Commission."

The Bike Project is a scheme that upcycles second-hand bikes and donates them to refugees, which might be a better way of explaining things.

Health and Safety regulations are extremely important in order to prevent accidents and save lives. I am sometimes appalled when I’m in other countries and I come across amazingly dangerous situations, often with no barriers or warnings. And many of these situations have been in Europe so I really don’t think that the EU is to blame for British safety regulations unless other countries simply ignore the regulations. We have good Health and Safety in the workplace and in the country at large, but it can always be improved. I don’t understand why people blame the EU and complain about the EU for us having good regulations which protect people.
I’m not sure I’ve worded that very well, I hope you can understand.

Moggie I've only just read the last few pages of this thread and would like to take issue with you on the subject of health and safety.

Do you remember the Marchioness (capsized on the Thames) and the Herald of Free Enterprise (in the Channel)? In both these cases health and safety regulations were ignored. There are hundreds of incidents in docks around the country which have resulted in fatalities or serious injuries.