31st October is going to be tight!

We have had these good things, but so many of the good things about the UK would be irrevocably damaged by any kind of brexit.

It is high time we woke up to the fact that we need to STOP BREXIT before we inflict further damage in our country.

I don't believe that is true Lemongrove. Before we joined the EEC as it was originally, the world was something out there that we once "owned" and life was generally very provincial. We were in terminal decline and the rest of the world saw us as a joke (a bit of our past we do seem to have got back). The internet, trade, infrastructure, food and culture have changed everything beyond comparison. And we can still do more and for more of our citizens but that will always be the case. We certainly don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater in order to do it.

Sounds a bit of an oxymoron GGMk3 to own half the world yet be provincial.

GGM3 Yes the world has changed, which is precisely why I do not want to be tied to the EU.

So you'd prefer to be tied to the US?

growstuff The U.K. was and should be an Independent trading Nation, no need to be "tied" to any Country.

?????????? GG13

(Tue 16-Jul-19 08:39:45)

I know my writing may confuse people at times Urmstongran but the words are there - I have checked. I said we once "owned" so not oxymoronic in the least. On the other hand ...

Are those feet Lemongrove? Have you been throwing your shoes to show your displeasure?

No, you said we once owned ... AND life WAS very provincial - my capitals - (ie at the same time?).
Hence my comment GGmk3

The U.K. was and should be an Independent trading Nation, no need to be "tied" to any Country. GrannyGravy13 (Tue 16-Jul-19 09:16:57)

And you know that working as a single trading nation will be better for us than being part of a larger trading group, how?

I have no doubt we would still punch above our weight but we cannot "punch" above the weight of a group of 28 nations including, with us, three of the richest countries in the world.

As a group, the EU ranks as the second-largest economy in the world by both GDP and PPP, with only China ahead of us. Why do you think the US is so keen for us to break up the union?

Chancellor Philip Hammond has warned that a no-deal Brexit could leave the new prime minister at the mercy of French president Emmanuel Macron, who could use access to the port of Calais as a way to exert pressure on the UK.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-uk-france-trade-philip-hammond-labour-tory-leadership-rudd-a9004236.html

The independent is pro Remain.
Let’s just wait and see. Reciprocal arrangements will most likely be sensible. Business will demand nothing less.

Demanding is not negotiating Urmstomgran. There is a great deal of chest beating from the "leading Bexiteers" and much wishing on a star but very little sign of any ability to negotiate among this group.

Yes well hurrah for The Independant, a lone star among the Brexit supporting tabloids, the Brexit supporting Telegraph, owned by tax dodgers, and the Brexit supporting Times owned by those upholders of public decency, the Murdoch family. Pot /kettle Urmonstongran

When was the UK an independent trading nation ie when did it not have to rely on having trading relations with other countries? Surely people remember learning about the Boston Tea Party, the Corn Laws or any of the other trade wars with China or mainland Europe (particularly France). The difference between now and the centuries before the 1960s is that the UK had colonies, which it exploited. European countries were constantly at war with each other, which held them back in so many ways, but they have benefited from working together. The UK was top dog for years, but the world has moved on. The majority of countries are part of some kind of trading bloc. Countries such as China, India and (of course) the US have become stronger. People are delusional, if they believe in British exceptionalism and think the UK is more than an island off mainland Europe, which has punched above its weight for years. The only people who will benefit from Brexit are rich businessmen, who really couldn't care less about the plebs.

So what's your solution to Ireland, Urmstongran? Or doesn't it matter to you?

The Independent is not pro-Remain, ug. It is independent, as was shown by analysis of bias in the UK press at the time of the fraudulent referendum of 2016.

This found that 80% of our UK national newspapers were promoting Leave propaganda and had been doing so for years - the worst offenders were The Express, Daily Mail and Telegraph. Only The Guardian and Mirror were pro-EU.

The Independent and its print version, the "i" were found to be balanced - giving both sides of the argument equal prominence.

It is very revealing that leavers regard anything less than a slavish devotion to their cause as "pro-Remain"

Ursula Von de Layern has been elected, how democratic, not on the original ballot paper, unopposed.

Part of her agenda - to,do away with vetoes on Foreign Policy, Energy and Climate Change.

An EU wide minimum wage.

She has been elected by a democratic process involving our elected MEPs from the 28 EU countries.

Who are the people about to elect our PM and who elected them?