Johnson and Brexit

Oh do try to get it right MaizieD

I have honestly stated that I am not an economist, but you failed to notice in the extract I quoted that he is critical of the way EU bureaucrats and officials work, bending the rules, illegal practices and protection of wealthy corporate elites whenever they might be challenged. He states much practice is ad-hoc,

Would you be able to call it out? Few people could I imagine given the labyrinthine organisation and layers of the EU.

We really haven't a clue how the organisation works. Mitchell's claims, after study (read the rest of the article) ought to make even the most dedicated Remainer ask questions about the UK's place in this set up. We prop this mess up with billions of pounds of taxpayers money, every year.

Most of us don't need an in-depth knowledge of economics to understand that much.

it was obvious to me that despite the chimera of a strict, rule-based system that is run by technocrats, the actual practice of the Union is vicariously ad hoc – rules applied in cases where doing otherwise would present ideological problems, abandonment of the rules and outright illegal behaviour when there the interests of the corporate elites are at stake or the existence of the Union is threatened

And while law breaking, relevant officials produce complicated justifications of their behaviour as if what they are doing is within the boundaries specified by the Treaties

Johnson busy trying to push the blame for no deal onto the EU.

??Own it - you silly little man.

Day6, you continually criticize the European Union for its treaties, structures, currency and management.

However, I asked you and other leave enthusiasts on this forum in a post earlier this week, what would you have replace the EU.should it implode and break up.

Would you wish be to have a continent of individual nations each with its own currency as was the situation in the early nineteen hundreds and nineteen-thirties, as we all know what that situation brought about?

In the above, the European Union has given the continent the longest period of peace and stability in its history.

So, come on Day6 and other leavers on the forum, tell us what would you have in place of the current EU. It is always very easy to criticise but often far more difficult to be constructive following such criticism.

That seems very much to be the case with the Brexiteers on this forum.

WWMK2 the UK parliament voted down "the deal", I believe Boris Johnson voted for it at least once.

Merkel has now given the U.K. 30 days to come up with a workable alternative to the "backstop" is it possible, who knows?

GrannyGravy13, in the opinion of many analysts in the media today, there is absolutely no chance that Johnson will be able to come up with any viable alternative to the Northern Ireland border situation or backstop.

Reason why....there is no alternative.

If the tories have been unable to come up with a viable alternative in 2 years their chances of finding one in 30 days are pretty remote.

The backstop was already a concession from the EU that was not universally approved by all the member states as it violates the principle of the benefits of the Single Market only being available to members of the single Market. this is a principle that has underlain their negotiating stance. However, the peace in Ireland obtained by the Good Friday Agreement is important to one of their member states, Ireland, and they are showing commendable solidarity in doing all they can to preserve it.

Anyone who thinks that even the hint of a border won't reignite The Troubles should take heed of the bombing at the weekend.

Grandad 'GrannyGravy13, in the opinion of many analysts in the media today, there is absolutely no chance that Johnson will be able to come up with any viable alternative to the Northern Ireland border situation or backstop.

Reason why....there is no alternative.'

totally agree with you. I have been saying that for a very very long time. What I find amazing, is that you keep saying or at least alluding to, the fact that there would be one for Corbyn. There is no alternative- not for May, not for Johnson and not for Corbyn either. Or ???

Merkel has given Johnson 30 days to find a unicorn. He'll bring back a donkey with a carrot taped to the top of its head.

There aren't any unicorns and Corbyn wouldn't be able to find one either.

Not intending to go back over old ground here (difficult to avoid when threads get so long) but please can the many Leavers who knew precisely what they were voting for 3 years ago tell us what they thought at the time would happen re Ireland?? What were they voting for there?

That description of a donkey with a carrot on its head has made me smile Growstuff- well said!

He'll spray it gold, call it a proper British unicorn which is free from the shackles of Europe and a cheer will go up from the Leavers

jura2, in regard to your post-@11:16 today, I certainly have not alluded to Jeremy Corbyn as having any answer to the Irish border problem where Boris Johnson has not.

As I stated in my post @-09:43 "Reason why there is no alternative resolution put forward is simply because there is no viable alternative to the Backstop, not for Johnson, Corbyn, Swinson, or any other leader.

This is Just Johnson and his ERG cohorts playing for time in their self serving hope that Britain will crash out of the European Union at the end of October before the opposition in Parliament can prevent that.

Grandad, you have more than alluded that Corbyn plans to renegotiate a better deal, a deal that protects jobs, etc. Which I have called, again and again, and even with a thread dedicated to it 'cake and eat it deal with unicorn on top'.

It does not, and cannot exist- and part of the reason is the Irish border. Have you come to the conclusion that it will not happen- whomever negotiates it?

Johnson, continually reiterating that the British will not be putting up a hard border between the two Ireland’s.

Oh dear head banging time again.

It is not between the two Ireland’s, but between the EU economic area and a third country.

The EU WILL put up a border between the two economic units. IT HAS NO CHOICE.

Apart from the expense and inconvenience, the biggest issue imo is that the U.K. border force will be sitting targets for the republicans.

jura2, in my last few posts on this thread I have only made reference to having Britain stopped from having the chaos of leaving the European Union with no deal and within that the Irish Border problem (The Backstop).

What the Labour Party would offer to the electorate in any General Election that could come about on the fall of this Johnson administration would be in the basis of what is current Labour Party policy.

However, that is a far different issue to the immediate and very dangerous matter of Britain leaving the EU without an agreement.

The Mayhem that would bring to these shores was laid out in the Governments own YellowHammer documents leaked to the press on Sunday

Sorry grandad- but if there is No Deal available- it is all very closely linked. You are a very intelligent man, so I am surprised, nad have been for a very long time- that you can't or won't, see that. What is the point of waiting until it is too late, until we have dropped out - to then accept that there is No Deal to be had anyhow.

We need to accept that it is what it is. It is either No deal- a we remain in EU - the sooner that position is clear and accepted- the sooner we can try and amend disaster.

Corbyn is gambling and playing with fire.

I couldn’t believe that Johnson accepted Merkel’s tongue in cheek challenge to sort out an alternative to the backstop in thirty days!
I’m sure the chants of “liar, liar” and “reject Brexit” from the demonstrators outside must have humiliated him, but this is a worse humiliation.
In the three years since the Referendum there has been no workable ideas about solving the Irish Border proble. How on earth could he think he can do it in thirty days? Oh yes. More oomph.
Will more oomph help him find an alternative that will respect the Good Friday Agreement, be accepted by the EU, the DUP, the ERG, Brexit voters, the Northern Irish and Ireland, a majority in Parliament and America?

jura2 in regard to your post @-12:49 today I have never stated that it was "no deal" only on offer. There has always been the alternative of Britain remaining in the free trade area and in that have a customs agreement with the EU nations.

The Tory party negotiators have never been prepared to accept the above as in all probability it would mean that Britain would still have to contribute towards the European Union budget.

However, remaining in the free trade area and a customs union has been part of the Labour Party Brexit policy for the last Twelve months. Therefore when Jeremy Corbyn states he would "attempt" to renegotiate parts of Theresa May's withdrawal deal, the above is without doubt what he is referring too.

Corbyn has also stated that whatever comes out of that renegotiation (whether that be for better or worse) would be put before the British electorate for acceptance or rejection. However, leaving with no deal would not be on the negotiation table or on any Ballot form placed in front of the British people

So, if Labour were elected to government in any Ballot held in the next few weeks then a referendum would be held in which the electorate could accept the renegotiated withdrawal agreement and leave the EU on that basis, or remain in the European Union on the same terms as the United Kingdom holds now.

What's not to like?

What's not to like? A Labour Government under Corbyn, that's what. I cannot think of anything worse for this country in terms of the economy. A no-deal Brexit would be preferable to a Labour Government. Remember what they presided over under Blair and Brown? And Corbyn is far more left wing than anything we have seen in recent history. He would destroy our economy, have no doubt.

Remaining in the Free Trade area (Norway type deal) means accepting FOM, doesn't it? Corbyn has said he won't accept that. So it doesn't look like a goer to me. It also means payments to the EU and no real say. It would, however, technically, mean that we have left the EU. But most Leavers have worked themselves into such an anti EU frenzy that they refuse to acknowledge that.

What did 'they preside over under Blair and Brown’ please, Opal? Compared with the vicious cuts since 2010?

The cuts since 2010 were a direct result of the spend, spend, spend policy of Labour for 13 years.

Johnson with Macron at the Elysee Palace today. Rather disrespectful. They obviously don’t teach manners at Eton!

I think if it’s a No Deal Brexit the E.U. wont put up a border. In time, when it suits, they will throw the RoI under a bus.

OOps mostly harmless, I started a thread on this but my link is wrong.

It looks awful.