Johnson and Brexit

Who exactly is in charge ?. I wonder if this heading should be Cummings and Brexit. He seems to be throwing his weight around quite a lot.I saw him referred to as the" de facto Prime Minister "in a report about meeting of government aides.

I think before you attempt to stop a no deal Brexit, it might be more pertinent to ask yourselves how exactly we ended up in a situation where we are more likely to crash out of the EU than leave with a deal? You can't fix the problem until you understand what caused the problem in the first place.

From day one, Remainers tried to stop Brexit and remove no deal from the negotiating table. This ensured that the EU were confident that they could dictate the terms of the WA with the surety that parliament would rubberstamp it through in preference to no deal brexit. This is what Theresa May gambled on and failed to achieve.

When you cannot walk away without a deal, you have given up any negotiating leverage you ever had.

Now both parliament, by rejecting every single version of Brexit placed before them (I believe they voted on 7 different options and rejected all) and the EU (no the WA cannot be re-opened) have boxed themselves into a corner and no deal is now the outcome as all positions have now become entrenched.

I am of the belief that one of two things will occur. Brexit will be cancelled or we will leave without a deal. There is no longer any interest by either side for compromise in between.

I am so scared about the future. I'm afraid I am putting my fingers in my ears at the moment.

Could anybody please explain, in simple , " non political " terms the advantages of leaving the EU.

Thanks in advance.

I agree and I hope that there are enough brave MPs (from all parties) to put their differences aside and stand up to him. So many have now been deselected and/or demoted that they must realise that they can still do something positive.

Unelected by the country, PM Johnson’s now threatening a coup - refusing to budge if he lost a no confidence vote by MPs. Brexit isn’t about Parliamentary sovereignty. It’s a Right-wing plot.

It's been deleted now, but one poster did say why she voted to leave and it didn't make pleasant reading. Unfortunately, I suspect that was the tip of the iceberg and explains the reason of a fair number.

I agree with you, SirChenjin. The Leavers fell out even before the referendum. There are various factions, who all want something different, so a situation has arisen, which is impossible to resolve.

If I were a bystander, watching a film and watching the game playing, it would be fascinating. Unfortunately, I'm part of that game and these **s are mucking about with MY country, like it's a sixth form debate.

And let’s just have a smigin of honesty. (Tue 06-Aug-19 08:28:48)

What you gave us Urmstongran, as you stand on your dignity and declare that your opinion is the only honest one, is just that - an opinion.

You do like to hit below the belt, don't you? I would suggest that everyone giving their opinion on here is giving it in all honesty. There are just some who see things from a very different perspective to you.

Perhaps the problem wasn't so much the MPs who voted but the fact that there was never goint to be a single approach to Brexit, regardless of how it was sold to us.

Despite being asked on numerous occasions, none of the Leavers on here can tell us what they actually voted for beyond a vague 'we want to take back control/not pay the EU more than we get back (dubious...)' so you can't expect MPs to vote as a hive mind - there are simply too many options for Brexit. It was always going to be the case.

It was the ERG and the ultra Brexit camp who voted down Mays deal not remainers. Get your facts right. People who put their country before their jobs area not to be sneered at. It’s those who are desperate for power at any price who have put us into this current mess.

Boris will have to do something constructive tooty de sweety - because a no deal would be disastrous, both for the country and for him and the Tory party generally.

How does he intend to get a no deal past Parliament? I'm still not clear on that one.

And let’s just have a smigin of honesty. If the majority of MPs had wanted a deal on Brexit it would have happened. Truth is the majority of MPs don’t want any version of Brexit, they want to stay in the EU.

Bemoaning a No-deal-Brexit is just a tactical stance. It’s the games played by MPs too frightened to face their own constituents that have led to the current situation. If they had explained their own positions on Brexit to their individual constituency parties prior to the last election they would have either been deselected or gained the support of their members. It’s too late for that but let’s drop the humbug and call it what it is.

I think Boris will try to renegotiate. The E.U. will hold off until the eleventh hour. Or just not. Boris will just let the clock run down until we Leave by legal default on 31st October.

Not a lot I disagree with here:

www.quora.com/Why-are-Remainers-so-convinced-that-staying-in-the-European-Union-is-what-is-best-for-the-UK/answer/Barry-McGuinness-1?fbclid=IwAR0t970zghwTENEmy6Hfib0V5bDwYtVI59o_ZuC_KbCCJz-v_wwbVPTNJUU

Well, it seems clear now from a number of sources, that Johnson has no intention of renegotiating.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/05/no-deal-brexit-is-boris-johnsons-central-scenario-eu-told?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

We'll have to see how he gets this undemocratic no-deal done. My guess he will want to have Parliament dissolved.

So much for taking back control!

Control has just been handed on a plate to the unelected Dominic Cummings and a bunch of toffs who will personally benefit from Brexit.

Civil unrest was included in the contingency planning - it could very well happen.

And did you listen to their points of view and evaluate them for yourself? Or did you just go with the expert who confirmed your own opinion?

What is wrong with people who can't bear hearing something from an expert?

Could this be perhaps that there are experts who voted Remain and experts who voted Leave?

For instance Mark Carney -v- Mervyn King.

It happens y’know!

Johnson uncovered as a lying - again!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6d5r0ebE0A

Those of you who dismiss anti Brexit experts as scare mongers, project fear etc., etc., do you also dismiss Climate Change experts?

and your message is for ??? jean6enie?

perhaps you'd care to explain. Hope you are aware that insults are against GN guidelines!

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Thank you GracesGranMK3 for the link. I haven't time to see it just now but will do so later.

I hope those who believe the UK can have their cake and eat it all watch Prof Dougan's short and perfectly comprehendable relies to the questions he is asked.

I sometimes wonder why anyone takes the trouble to study anything to the point of being knowledgeable and expert on the subject. Their expertise is instantly suspect by those who (like Manuel) "know nussing", because they are - shock horror - actually PAID to give their opinion as professionals, unlike the good old British amateur, who just dabbles in his spare time and is above mere commercialism.

More, Elegran, what is wrong wiht people who think their opinions are of higher value, more truthful, than those of an expert. I don't get it I'm afraid.

I have just started a thread here; www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1264577-If-we-leave-without-a-deal-what-will-happen-to-the-supply-of-food-in-the-UK

About a paper brought out and available from the Lancet. Unsurprisingly it is about health in the event of us leaving but it picks up on the knock-on effects to health from such things as not being able to import fresh food for an extended period, etc. You may find it interesting.

What is wrong with people who can't bear hearing something from an expert?

What you have to understand, Elegran is that anyone who is an expert on anything EU related and concludes, because of their expertise, that leaving the EU is not a good idea, immediately becomes a Remoaner and so not worth listening to. Dougan is doubly suspect because not only is a Professor of EU Law but he also held the Jean Monnet Chair for a period and we all know that Monnet was the instigator of the Evil Empire which aspires to bind all European nations in adamantine chains for all eternity.

Whereas Aunt Kitty voted Leave and so is absolutely correct in anything she says that is EU related. (Probably right about Uncle Jim, too )