Johnson and Brexit

?*Elegran

60 odd days to go. I’m happy. It’s happening at last.

Regards.
One of the terminally gullible.

?

It sounds like a joke and a gift to headline writers, but Boris Johnson’s talk at the G7 about “porkie pies” exporting around the world but not to the US, has been found to be lies.
The Melton Mowbray pork pie spokesman confirms that their pies only have a shelf life of four days and aren’t exported to Thailand and Iceland as Johnson claimed.
It also exposes another problem with leaving the EU. Products like Melton Mowbray pies, can only be manufactured in a small designated locality under EU legislation, but without that EU designation anybody could make them anywhere in the world.
I think (from memory) local cheeses such as Stilton, Wensleydale etc come under this protective EU legislation too.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/26/telling-porkies-boris-johnson-melton-mowbray-pork-pie-claim-fails-truth-test?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

60 odd days to go. I’m happy. It’s happening at last.

I can see no signs of anything that has actually changed other than the preparation for civil unrest; shortage of medicine; shortage of fresh foods followed by other foods within about three weeks; a general need to stockpile and glee from some at the return of the country to the 1940s/50s.

It's strange what makes some people happy and how little they realise that this could make others very unhappy - possibly with them or mistakenly with those who didn't wish this on them - so forgive me if I do not look forward to the chaos.

Well it’s rather telling that those who are happy are those who don’t care about destroying businesses and just think it will all be marvellous come November 1st because they will have won. If you don’t think businesses are being destroyed I know of 2 small businesses that cannot continue due to the increasing costs the falling £ has created. It’s all very well for big businesses with bigger margins, but small businesses who have to import raw materials are really struggling. Terminally gullible and delusional are about right.

Funny old game politics.

At the G7 the EU and US have spoken of finally perhaps doing a Trade Deal.

Angela Merkel:-

"We have a great interest in our trade being intensified. I think we can find solutions,” Merkel added. “Germany, within the framework of the EU, is working hard on this.”

I remember the years of posts on GN that likened TTIP to the devil's spawn.

Now it is the same with a unilateral trade deal between the UK/US.

Question to:-

Those who have posted they hated the TTIP arrangement between the EU/USA, did not want it full stop.

Those who hate the UK doing a deal with the USA

Those who wish to Remain in the EU.

How do you think whether the UK is in or out of the EU you will get what you want? If we REMAIN we will have a Trade Deal with the USA , if we LEAVE we will have a Trade Deal with the USA, of course that should include the word 'possibly'.

The NHS is held up as a sacred cow not to be included in any trade deal with the USA. If we REMAIN a member of the EU we will have to abide by what negotiations the EU decide.

How does that give you what you want?

Also

The EU when it either wants to sign trade deals with or have signed trade deals with countries who are obviously not in the Customs Union/Single Market/ Require Crossing borders it is suddenly ' no problem'.

Why?

How does the lack of being in a Customs Union/Single Market/Requiring Crossing of Borders apply to other countries but not the UK?

Merkel said " I think we can find solutions ' to others buy not the UK.

Why?

Famous liar Boris Johnson tells more porkies. -[

Boris Johnson had said pork pies are exported to Thailand and Iceland, but cannot be to the US due to red tape.

However the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie Association said the pies were not even exported to Thailand and Iceland.

Downing Street insisted pies were exported, citing producer Walker & Son - but the company said this was not correct.

Walker & Son told the BBC it had previously exported a "tiny amount" of pork pies to Singapore, but had not done so for "at least two years" and is now "entirely focused on the UK market".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49470831

An article entitled "Boris Johnson’s Big Lie" was written just two months ago, and the truth of it becomes more apparent by the day-

"Though Johnson will most likely soon find himself in a position where he must make good on his promises, he continues to spread untruths. Chief among them is the myth that Britain can tear up the withdrawal agreement that May negotiated with the EU, withhold its financial commitments to the bloc, and simultaneously start negotiating free-trade deals. To Johnson’s followers, however, he is more prophet than politician: only he can deliver a mythical “true Brexit” that will deliver the prosperity promised during the referendum campaign.

As is often the case with populists, reality does not square with Johnson’s ensorceling combination of false promises, pseudo-patriotism, and foreigner bashing. He and his fellow Brexiteers speak of a “Global Britain” that will trade freely with the rest of the world, even as they drag their country down a path strewn with uprooted trade ties and substantial new barriers to commerce."

www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/boris-johnson-trade-deal-myths-by-guy-verhofstadt-2019-06

Boris Johnson mentioned pork pies, shower trays and cauliflowers when talking about a trade deal with the US because they are the only things he could find that aren't exported. We do a huge amount of trade with the US through deals that have already been negotiated by the EU.

Once again the gullible amongst the British public believe his nonsense. And that of Trump.

I don't see any reason why you think it so clever to suggest countries want trade deals POGS. I would have thought that a given. The EU has been expanding the countries we have trade deals with ever since we joined the Common Market.

However, as a member of the EU those deals were not made on supplicant basis and each time the negotiations took years. Why do you think leaving will give us better deals when every logical view tells us the will be worse -if we ever get to the front of the queue.

You accuse so many of such negative thinking just because it isn't yours. Yet more sad attempts to be derogatory towards people who simply don't share your politics.

People will, for one reason or another, die because of those politics. I will remind you of your part in this when it happens.

Tom Peck writes- "A Brexit deal will not redeem Boris Johnson from his own shame. He is beyond salvation"

"Should any kind of deal be forthcoming .... - we will, all of us, be worse off.

Apart from Boris Johnson, of course. He will, in his own eyes, be a hero. The newspapers will heap praise upon him, full page posters for the malign society they uphold. And that, of course, will be what it has always been about.

There will be long years for millions of people to reflect on how they allowed themselves to be conned in this way. Debates about who holds power, and why they have so little compunction about using it for such nakedly vicious intent. Of whether more should be done about, say the billionaire Crispin Odey, who makes no secret of the fact he bets billions of pounds on Britain’s ruin, donates to the cause of its ruin with his own cash, then pockets the unimaginable profits.

The weeks ahead are uncertain, and pointless to predict, but there is every chance of Johnson emerging, as the beaming face of the greatest con that’s ever been pulled. The man who saved his country from himself.

But he will not be a hero in the long run. There is no chance of that. He is already beyond salvation."

www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-g7-summit-brexit-no-deal-biarritz-eu-negotiations-a9079106.html

GGMK3

I asked questions I did expect at least some sort of reply with regard to it from somebody, anybody. Do you have any answers to the questions or not?

" I don't see any reason why you think it so clever to suggest countries want trade deals POGS"

Where the hell did I suggest that?
----

"Why do you think leaving will give us better deals when every logical view tells us the will be worse -if we ever get to the front of the queue."

I did not say ' leaving would give us better trade deals'!

I ask questions with regard to the UK Remaining or Leaving in the EU and the making of Trade Deals, Negotiations. I did not say ' leaving would give us better Trade Deals'. I asked how those who wish to Remain, hate TTIP and think the UK should not trade with the US can ' square the circle' so to speak. A perfectly valid question by the way.

I think I have a good grasp of what Leavers want it is 'some' of the Remainers I find more interesting in trying to understand what they have or have not answers to, such as the question re Trade Deals being done with countries not in the Customs Union/Single Market/ Requiring Crossing Borders and there being no problems.
---

" You accuse so many of such negative thinking just because it isn't yours. Yet more sad attempts to be derogatory towards people who simply don't share your politics."

I accused nobody of negative thinking!

My questions were not ' derogatory'.!

As for sad attempt to be derogatory towards people who don't share your politics I think your ' twisting ' of my post and subsequent use of terms that were not used by me at all certainly falls into that category however.
-
SAVE THE BEST FOR LAST

"People will, for one reason or another, die because of those politics. I will remind you of your part in this when it happens."

What bloody part?

The part where I voted Remain, the part where I asked perfectly sensible questions you can't answer but obviously they hit a nerve! .

What in all the Brexit comments I have made, they are by far fewer than yours by the way, will you remind me of if people Die?

I will not give you the pleasure of saying what I would like to you over that comment so somebody could get my entire post deleted but hell the temptation to your last comment was below the belt.

Your questions actually make very little sense, POGS

How do you think whether the UK is in or out of the EU you will get what you want? If we REMAIN we will have a Trade Deal with the USA , if we LEAVE we will have a Trade Deal with the USA, of course that should include the word 'possibly'.

We already trade with the US because of trade deals with it made via the EU. Trade deals which mean that goods traded in both directions are to EU standards. Has anyone found this to be a problem?

If we leave we have to negotiate a complletely new deal with the US who will then be in a position of strength as they have by far the largest market and we will be the suppliants. As has been pointed out, trade deals take a great deal of time to negotiate and agree. What do we do in the meantime?
We also know what the US 'shopping list' is with regard to a trade deal with the UK. It's been posted on here before and it isn't pretty.

The NHS is held up as a sacred cow not to be included in any trade deal with the USA. If we REMAIN a member of the EU we will have to abide by what negotiations the EU decide.

If we remain in the EU we are a member with a say in any trade negotiations (they don't just materialise out of thin air) and we will have a veto.

Seeing how the EU is defending the ROI in our brexit negotiations I think sends a message that the EU will not allow any detriment to its member states. Why on earth would it trade away our NHS?

I'll have to respond further later. We're off out now

Just watched Porkie Pie Johnson being 'interviewed' on Sky News and he didn't answer a single question [also lied about vote leave's 'overwhelming majority']. My tv is lucky to survive some days....oh, and Ch 4 obviously weren't allowed to question him...

Well all those people must have known they were voting for porky pies.

Why the detrimental personal comment? No one refers to frumpy Mrs Merkel, or scruffy Jeremy Corbyn!(that beard!!)

crystaltipps! How childish! (yawn, yawn!)

It would seem that one forum member is insisting that where European Union member nations have land borders with non-member nations there are no problems with the seamless free flow of vehicles at those crossings with no delays whatever.

That is very much not the case as the below BBC report demonstrates.

BBC report begins here:-
So, of all let's head north - to the border between Norway and Sweden.

Sweden is in the EU, Norway isn't.

Norway is part of the single market through its membership of the European Economic Area (EEA) but it's not in the customs union.

Being in the single market means Norway respects the EU's four freedoms - the freedom of movement of goods, services, capital and people. But that doesn't get rid of the need for customs checks.

Even so, Norway's border with Sweden is one of the simplest and most technologically advanced customs borders in the world, and lorries only ever have to stop once. They do not have to repeat the same process on both sides of the border

At the main border crossing at Svinesund, Norwegian customs say they deal with about 1,300 heavy goods vehicles every day - which is less than a tenth of the number that passes through Dover.

And the average time from when a lorry arrives to when it leaves the border? About 20 minutes. That includes roughly 10 minutes waiting time, three to six minutes of handling time, and the time spent coming off the road to complete the customs process.

It is highly efficient, but certainly not entirely frictionless.

Next - we go south - to the border between Turkey and Bulgaria.

Again Bulgaria is in the EU, and Turkey isn't. But Turkey does have a customs union with the EU for most manufactured goods.

Here though the delays are much longer. Outside the single market, there's a need for all sorts of documentation, from export licences and invoices to transport permits.

That means huge queues of lorries are normal, and they are made worse because there are only three road crossings open along the entire border. A report prepared for the European Commission in 2014 suggested a waiting time of about three hours for lorries travelling from Turkey to Bulgaria. However, drivers hoping to cross the border say they often have to wait for more than 24 hours at busy times.

So being in a customs union doesn't automatically make border checks entering or leaving EU territory disappear; in this case that's partly because Turkey is not part of the single market and its common set of rules and regulations.

There are also external EU borders in the heart of Europe, such as the one between Switzerland and France.

France, of course, is a founder EU member, while Switzerland is not in the EU but is part of the single market thanks to a series of bilateral agreements.

Again, though, Switzerland is not in the customs union.The Swiss border is often held up as an example of what could be achieved in Ireland, but here too there is physical infrastructure at all the main crossings - it is a hard border.

According to information from the International Road Transport Union (IRU), the average waiting time for lorries carrying goods ranges from 20 minutes to more than two hours if full inspections have to be carried out/
BBC report ends.

Link to the article can be found here:-
www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-44054594

Just seen this - sorry if you've seen it before, but it made me laugh...

www.dailymotion.com/video/x2rgz6l

Just about sums up the level of truth telling at the moment.

Oh growstuff - cry or laugh? I feel it may be too close to home to laugh.

It's a kind of hysterical laugh

Jabberwok posts - "Why the detrimental personal comment? No one refers to frumpy Mrs Merkel, or scruffy Jeremy Corbyn!(that beard!!"

How can anyone possibly equate derogatory comments about a politician's appearance with stating and restating the established fact that a politician is a known liar???

Johnson does always look a mess, though. His jacket is always too tight [probably due to putting back on all that weight he lost]. Always fiddling with his jacket buttons as well; I did read that it was a sign of insecurity.

jabberwok What’s childish about pointing out the lies told by Johnson - kippers and pork pies- Johnson has blatantly lied about these products and how they would “benefit” from Brexit. Are there any products which will benefit from Brexit? Perhaps someone should tell the PM if so. Maybe anti depressants will do well but that would depend on the U.K. having some manufacturing capabilities ( which we are sadly lacking).

Growstuff Thanks for the link. Accurate but it did make me laugh