No Deal Brexit Leaflet...

Many thanks, Jababerwock! Nice to see some friendly words. Totally agree about the food. The EU have some dreadful practices and allow and encourage the live animal export trade.

I've just been referred to as a snowflake! What on earth do you mean, growstuff? And I have given you reasons.

Varian, with regard to the 'external' threats as opposed to this 'madness', I was pointing out that some people got very carried away and believed all the doom and gloom and some didn't. Doesn't matter if it's internal or external. It's people's reactions.

""A report by challenger wealth manager Netwealth has found that London remains a "pre-eminent global financial centre", ranking just behind New York, despite continued fears that Brexit would drive clients to other destinations.""

Ernst and Young have said similar.

People love to pounce on the negative and cry that the world is doomed but we will survive.

Going back to beliefs ... they are actually all we have. Nobody knows anything for sure. Nobody. Certainly not a bunch of folk on Gransnet.

If we don't pay our dues, and import poor standard meat and other foodstuffs from the USA, that could then find its way into France and EU, via Ireland or Calais - and cheaper too, threatening French and EU farmers - all hell will let lose. This is not a prediction, but a garantee!

Mad Cow disease is still a ticking time bomb and weren't we the perpetrators of that? What terrifies me at the moment when I see what's going on is that Johnson wrote a book about Churchill and I honestly think he is living out some sort of delusional fantasy; war cabinets etc etc. Did anyone visualise 4 years ago that we would be in some sort of 'war' with Europe, that we'd be desperate to ally ourselves with a country governed by a madman and that the UK was at the point of disintegrating? Because, quite frankly, it never crossed my mind.

SirChenjin I thought I made my comment quite clear. Having over the years, since the vote, explained myself on other forums etc, I'm the point now of let's just get on with it. Debates and arguments have become, as I said, pointless.

Leading up to the vote I was divided in which way to go. I have a dislike for the press but I read what I thought would help, looked at my own County to see what businesses etc. were saying, in particular the fishing industry, then I decided. I looked at both sides of the argument.

I can't turn the clock back. I see no point in harping on about what has already gone.

While there has been much hand-wringing and angst about the negotiations, they pale into insignificance beside the manifest economic benefits that will flow from Brexit – if the government does the right thing. However, I have little - no - I have no faith in the government doing that. Politically the UK is a mess.

jura2. Most of the EU are desperate to do a deal with USA. Germany has been thwarted so far by the French. Macron has been blocking this. But not for long. So don't be thinking it's just us that wants to trade with USA. So that in itself could cause the problems you guarantee.

Unbelievable just how blinkered some can be. For a very short period - weeks - we will have a glut of lamb so it will be cheaper while they are culling the flocks but when they are gone they are gone. The little that is left after that will be extremely expensive. Now I know that those who voted Leave will jump in during that first couple of weeks, should we get to this point, shouting "we told you it was project fear. Look there's plenty of lamb and it's cheap.

What do we make of people who think like this? We have been told that it isn't a lack of imagination so they are either deluded, extremely naive, or stupid. Otherwise why would the lie, not only to us but to themselves? Why would the endanger all our futures and those of our children and grandchildren?
Why would they not, at least, temper their extreme mania for their view of leave and look at the truth?

My amazement grows when I see this is coming from Conservatives who call themselves the "party of business". How does that work when they are prepared to kill a lot of our businesses?

GracesGran. You call those who want to leave 'deluded, extremely naive, stupid'. You then go on to talk about their 'extreme mania'. Well I beg your pardon, but I have only seen extreme mania from Remainers. Especially on this site.

Many people who actually know what they're talking about don't see Brexit as being anywhere near as bad as you're making out. And I'm not talking about people on this site either. Just do some research.

I assure you it is not all doom and gloom.

What do you actually think is going to happen? Will we revert to living in caves, foraging for food? From some of the more animated posts it appears that's the way the UK is headed.

Graces - Read Sir John Timpson's views of leaving. He is certainly not a man whom I would consider to be any of your comments. A very astute business and family man.

What do we make of people who think like this? We have been told that it isn't a lack of imagination so they are either deluded, extremely naive, or stupid. Otherwise why would the lie, not only to us but to themselves? Why would the endanger all our futures and those of our children and grandchildren?
Why would they not, at least, temper their extreme mania for their view of leave and look at the truth?

Well I agree with Gracegran and your assurance that everything will be ok after we leave is just feather brain thinking.

Anyone who swings into a hysterically up mood when all around them the facts say "that is not how it is" could well be described as manic. Each member of the cabinet is acting in maniacal fashion at the moment as far as I can see.

Who, who knows what they are talking about is saying things will be great, it's all going to be okay? Name me one we could take seriously, Minniemoo.

Minniemoo, if you are going to put quotes round something and attribute it to me could you make sure that it's accurate please.

WOODMOUSE49 all three of John Timpson's grandchildren voted for in but he thinks he knows better because he is "a bit of a maverick" and prepared to gamble with their future.

I don't find that in the least convincing.

Bad habit of mine re: the quote GracesGranMK3. I was answering you and you had alluded that Leavers were deluded, extremely naive or stupid so I assumed you'd understand. Apologies. No more quote marks from me. I know I am not as bright as some of the Gransnet members!

If we're talking about politicians being manic, I can see that Boris's, or Mr. Johnson as he should be called now he's PM, demeanour will not sit well with everyone. I think that the Conservative's now appreciate that if they don't deliver Brexit then we can wave goodbye to them for a generation at least. So this way is possibly the only way. Theresa May hardly caused a ripple.

Politicians have never filled me with much hope really. I'm not a political beast. So many of them have lied, promised, cheated etc etc. That's just politics. We have to put up and shut up until an election and try to get who we find the least insufferable into power.

Of course that won't be the same person for everyone.

But back to Brexit. If it happens ... and I for one am not sure it will ... there has been much work behind the scenes for a No Deal and I do believe that we are more prepared than many realise.

Minniemoo , I totally agree with your comments about the EU's economic relationship with Africa! I'm sure someone on here will say that things are better now, but if not then for African farmers in particular, it is a pretty dire situation and smacks of Empire!. Another good reason from us to leave this awful morally bankrupt organisation.

WOODMOUSE49 : I would like to know what the 28% who didn't vote, were up to that day! Wonder if they still couldn't care less!

Some of the 28% didn't vote because they thought that it was reckless of our government to delegate such an important decision to the electorate. Members of my own family commented ”how are we suppose to understand such complicated matters!”

Some of the 28% probably couldn't be bothered to vote in which case one must draw the conclusion that they can't have been too unhappy with the EU before the referendum.

I think it is fair to say there is quite a bit of apathy and indifference in Britain when it comes to politics.

My opinion is that the referendum should never have happened.

Don't try to be clever please Minniemoo, of course I understand why people change what others have said. I seems you are catching our PMs complaint.

I totally agree Greta that referendum should never have happened. It was ill-conceived, fraudulent and won by lies and cheating. After the fraud and foreign interference was proven, it would have been nullified had it been mandatory, but as it was only advisory that did not happen.

Nevertheless the ever more desperate brexiters, including our new government, insist on treating it as mandatory, and as all the evidence points to the utter folly of the whole project, they keep repeating "it was the will of the people so it must happen" and are egged on by the rightwing media.

It is time to stop brexit before things get any worse.

Advisory? Well as 80% of MP's signed up for article 50, it could be said that the advise was given by the public and agreed upon by Parliament!!

Labaik your comments above:
^Did anyone visualise 4 years ago that we would be in some sort of 'war' with Europe, that we'd be desperate to ally ourselves with a country governed by a madman and that the UK was at the point of disintegrating? Because, quite frankly, it never crossed my mind^

This sums up how I feel, all the posturing, people like the silly little Mark Francois and Peter Bone with their anti-German rhetoric, it is truly disgusting. Johnson is deranged, over excited by getting the job he has always wanted. I really, really hope that the Welsh farmers give him the welcome he deserves today, just like the warm welcome he got in Scotland.

Jabberw 'Advisory? Well as 80% of MP's signed up for article 50, it could be said that the advise was given by the public and agreed upon by Parliament!!'

they signed up on the premise that we would get a great, and very easy deal - and so fast after the vote, before all the evidence of fraud and interference had come out in the open, and before the consequences of Brexit, and in particular No Deal (which was NOWHERE and NEVER on the cards), were known.

Gracesgran. Sighs. I am not trying to be clever. We both know I'm not.

"of course I understand why people change what others have said." I'm not sure you understand why I did. It was for speed. it didn't change anything you said.

" I seems you are catching our PMs complaint." I don't know what that means.

You know if we were discussing this face to face I'm sure you would be less aggressive. I have friends and family on both sides of the Brexit fence and we all still get on. Look at Boris's family? They're all over the place but they still appear to get on.

Getting on is good. Try it.

The only people who are at war with each other is people on forum's such as these.

I am bowing out. People can post their lies, fears and crystal ball readings until they're blue in the face. Nobody will ever change anyone's mind. Even when confronted with facts .

I've been called stupid, naive, gullible, a snowflake even! That's my favourite. Oh and a fool and an idiot.

Is there any wonder why this is all such a mess when complete strangers go on the attack. We had a chap in the village I grew up in who had a banner that he wandered around with ... 'We're all doomed'. If that's how you want to live your lives, just go for it.

Where are the "experts" who are saying all will be okay?. Where are the farmers who think this is a great way to go, the business organisations who are begging the government to go ahead with no deal? Where are the the investors with enough faith in this lack-of-a-plan to buy up sterling and show their faith?

All we hear from is the odd person who brands himself as a "maverick" and politicians who know so little about their own limitations that the won't listen to experts.

Far from thinking this is a great way to go farmers have told Boris Johnson to stop playing "Russian roulette" with the agricultural sector as he embarks on his first official visit to Wales.

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/economy/agriculture/news/105660/farmers-warn-boris-johnson-stop-playing-russian-roulette

GracesGranMK3

Look beyond one quote. He has the experience , knowledge and skills to give him an informed decision. OK his grandchildren voted in. As he said in 2016 those that will vote to stay are probably process driven, like to play it safe and stick to the rules.

Time to bow out of this post. It's getting very repetitious. One argument being counteracted by another ... Respect doesn't seem to be a word some people here understand.

Minniemoo has said it all. Well done.

I'm off to find another post to lighten my day.