US Beef

Monica I do exactly the same as do my AC and GC

Maw, the thrust of Rosecarmel's description is true, even if many people don't buy absurd rubbish.

As I said, I stick to supporting Maw.

Yes, there are incontinent shoppers, my closest friend is, although her problem, is rather more upmarket than supermarket tat. But that apart, I know very few people, who shop in the way you describe. Yes, they have the reusable bag, but food is not wasted, nor tat purchased.

A person would have to be fairly solvent to shop in that way. I know nobody in our family shops like that nor do our friends.

I did buy six burgers and four remain in the freezer weeks later
In mitigation, they were for a bbq but we changed our minds about cooking them
And they were from the farm shop made from their own beef
And we will eat them
Soon

My spatula is years old btw

The offering of products in the US, from asphalt shingles to zucchini, are in quality and price equal to each financial class-

There are the wealthiest- And then the rest of us-

Middle class "type" items of any kind cost more, appear nicer but break just as easily- They are often made in likeness to resemble vintage American manufactured brands- But fake- Just like the idea that there is a middle class- People look like middle class in appearance, but on paper, they're in debt*-

And it isn't unusual for high end, high price items to be junk too-

Plenty of wealthy individuals shop low end for that very reason- Why pay 10 for what you can get for 1?

Shopping in the US involves a lot of hunting, research, reading reviews and returning purchases until you finally find a quality item worth the asking price-

As for returns, they are insanely huge- So much so that it's a business- Some of the excess filters through charity shops, high end (not really) online liquidation sites and so forth- What doesn't get sold ends up in the trash and landfills- And some stuff ends up ..

www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/tunisia-used-clothing-export-charity-donation/

Due to trade agreements and regulations that cater to corporations that line the pockets of the government ..
We got f ...

*We're headed for another recession-

I like my spatula ..

It's metal and wood- And older- My mother on the other hand would have one with a gnome or pansy on the handle .. And I love her for that ..

What does any of this have to do with beef?

What do the terms 'middle class' and 'working class' mean? All but a tiny minority of people have to work for their living.

If it means income then talk in income terms - low, medium, high incomes - or occupational terms, 'most engineers - accountants, scaffolders'

Most people, regardless of class, occupation or income eat beef and most, if they knew about the Feed lot method of raising cattle, and all it entails would avoid eating beef raised that way.

Ever tried asking Pizza Express and other such chains where they source their chicken? I did and stopped eating it.

I will only ever buy British meat anyway, and we eat a good deal less than we used to, so it won't make any difference to me.

What about all the Danish bacon the UK consumes? I believe factory farming of pigs is rife in Denmark, but nobody ever seems to make a fuss about that.

There isn't a middle class, Monica- Not in the US- You're welcome to try to find it and then define it as others have- Or you could choose from the multitude of theories of it that social scientists have provided-

There's no "good" reason to treat animals and people as they do here- But there is a reason: profit-

If you were to gather every scrap of grass fed beef in my state it wouldn't be enough to feed everyone- As I see it, there are enough local farms in place that offer grass fed beef as there are people inclined to buy it-

Am I the only one who feels that understanding this thread gets more and more like knitting fog?

I thought it was just me

I don't think I have ever read on GN a more persistently incoherent thread! Knitting fog?

No, mcem I got lost ages ago...

No idea what happened there! Shows how bamboozled I am!

It's about spatulas, trade agreements, beef, human beings, hormones and now knitting-

Much as I dislike the man, Mr Trump has a point about putting your own country first. Why export/import what you have at home? We have perfectly good beef (excellent beef in fact) but we import from Brazil and export our own to Asia, etc. And yes, very intensively reared Danish pork comes here and they import our wonderful free range Suffolk pork.

Is there any guarantee that the intensively reared Brazilian chicken served up by Pizza Express isn't chlorinated? I very much doubt it's reared to theoretical EU standards.

If you care about what you eat, you'll pay more for quality British meat. (And maybe eat less of it.) If you don't care about the taste or origin and are prepared to spend on sauces to make your meal palatable you'll buy any stuff from anywhere. (and it's only the chicken skin that's chlorinated, I'm sure it doesn't affect the taste!)

I shall go now - I have some skeins of fog to wind into balls.

rosecarmel if there isn't a middle class in the USA, why did you write Middle class "type" items of any kind cost more in a post further up the page?

Nfk, It isn't the chlorine which is the problem, but that the chicken has been reared in poor conditions. Chlorination covers up the problem rather than not causing the problem in the first place - and yes, I know that much of our chicken is reared in horrendous conditions.

Personally, I don't eat much meat and I am fussy about its origin. I guess part of me thinks I should be a veggie, so it's a sop to my conscience to hope that the animals I'm eating have led a reasonably happy life, but really the problem isn't at an individual level.

I'm more concerned that antibiotics and growth hormones are getting into the eco-system, which will eventually have a knock-on effect on the planet and everything/one living on it.

If cheap meat is available, people will eat it. I remember thinking years ago that supermarkets could sell manufactured meat pies and other products more cheaply than I could make them, so something must be wrong. The "meat" in them couldn't possibly be of the same quality as I would use.

PS. Presumably we export some of our beef because buyers abroad are prepared to pay a premium for better quality. Meanwhile, we eat beef which has been produced more cheaply. It's all about money.

PPS. That's just a guess. Maybe somebody who knows about beef imports/exports could enlighten us.

Nfk clearly missed the long thread we had a few months ago on this issue of importing meat from the US. The problem with chlorinated chicken was very clearly explained then.

Because US chickens are reared in conditions which would not be allowed in the UK they carry more toxic bacteria. The chlorine wash is to attempt to destroy the bacteria before the chicken gets to the consumer.

US rates of food poisoning show that one person in six gets food poisoning in the US. In the UK the figure is one person in 60 (which is bad enough, I think. Who in their right minds would want to reduce it to one in six?)

Dumpling, when Mr Trump talks about U.S. production of anything, and the high quality he wants these products to be, listen carefully- The discussion revolves around the creation of new jobs and high quality products designed for "export"- It has nothing to do with providing quality products for domestic use, for U.S. citizens- Including beef-

Monica, I said that because there used to be a middle class- But it's gone- Manufacturing cheap reproductions of the quality items once used by the middle class will not magically bring it back-