Meanwhile in Scotland 2

www.heraldscotland.com/news/18118552.mark-smith-happy-christmas-first-minister---questions-think-answer/

Interesting viewpoint on independence

A very good article - thanks for sharing Tooting

Yes a good article but it's just stating the obvious and missing out a lot too.

Bojo has said a few nasty things about us Scots. It's difficult to like him after that.

Boris says lots of dodgy things! I know the men in grey suits worry all the time about what he may say or do next!!

The FACT is, that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against the will of a very significant majority (unlike the tiny pro Brexit majority in the UK- which has now been clearly proven to be false and reversed).

My sympathy for them lies partly in the fact that the French speaking part of Switzerland could, one day- be dragged out of the Special reciprocal agreements and Trade Deal with have with the EU- against our will. Because we are a large % of the population, but always a minority compared to the German Cantons. Zurich and Basel normally vote pro Europe and generally with the French speakers- but the rural German speaking areas are very entrenched and insular.

Says it all

Things somehow were VERY different then.

Perhaps post a map of the areas that voted Remain- and those now shown to be CURRENTLY pro not being dragged out of EU against their will.

Two different things. Is doesn't make any sense to leave UK.
I know you have a bee in your bonnet re brexit jura but it's too late. I voted remain in both referenda. I only got what I wanted in one of them. Going on and on about won't make any difference. I accepted the result.
Scottish independence from our biggest market after centuries of alliance would be madness. The briefest look at how SNP have made a mess of runing country is all that's needed to know that.
A Scottish king took over England (James) and umpteen Scottish PMs and senior politicians have been elected at Westminster over the years. England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland belong together.

No bee in my bonnet - for sure.

So I guess Edingburg and Glasgow are indeed very different places- and that you didn't join the massive march.

I totally agree they belong together- and was totally against Scottish Independence a few years ago, and delighted it didn't happen.

But belonging to a large minority here- and seeing how appallingly Scots have been treated in the HoC and elsewhere- and how they are being drageed out of EU against their will - I just can't blame them. They would gain MASSIVE support from the EU and EEA, and other countries- both in tourism, industry and financial services, etc.

Here's some pictures of the march. You'll see why they don't have much support in Scotland. Not exactly a credit to Scotland or in fact Ireland apparently. Glasgow is still regrettably sectarian and these marches give an excuse for all sorts of people looking for a fight. There were fights too. I could add clips. Really not a march that represents the rest of us in Scotland. Just an embarrassment. ?

Oh dear, Jane10, you have as much of a bee in your bonnet as you think jura2 has! I am not claiming that your photos are made up, but I do say that they are no more representative of the AUOB marches than they would be of any march. You will get numpties attaching themselves to any cause, even, dare I suggest, the No campaign.

It was reported in the Sunday Herald that those with "inflammatory" banners - like those you posted - had been told to remove them, but don't let that stand in the way of a good story.

You can't claim that few people in Scotland support independence, any more than I could claim (which I don't) that few people support remaining in the UK.

Jane re the two pictures on the right of your montage with the stark use of C***s , are you sure they're authentic?

Are they from a reputable source?

For every one numpty on the march waving their saltire banner or wearing their see you jimmy hat there’s two or more rolling their eyes and quietly getting on with their lives while waiting to see what Boris the Buffoon and Ragin’ Nicola come up with.

I’m furious that we’re being taken out of the EU, and even more furious at the utter contempt that the Tories have shown for the devolved administrations in the Brexit negotiations. I could be persuaded to hold my nose and vote Yes if there was a clear pathway to EU membership with terms agreed - but at the moment that doesn’t look likely.

Two or more Scots

Indeed, the Press want you too see what they want you to see.

I became so aware of that a long time ago, and it has been getting worse all the time. I went to the Isle of Wight festival, there was over half a million of us. In 4 days, I saw nothing but peace and love and friendship, and loved every minute. When I returned to London, people were sure I would have died, been beaten up and worse and drugged up to my eye balls. Because this is the only bits they showed on telly and in the Press.

But the fact is, a much bigger majority than England, and all over Scotland, voted to remain. They have been treated appallingly and with great disrespect by Johnson ERG and this Government- and they do NOT want to Leave.

Jane10 one of your banners says F**k British Imperialists.

Do they not realise that the Scots were ardent imperialists and were very proud of their achievements in creating a British Empire with the help of their regiments?
Or does it suit them to deliberately misremember history?

jura, yes, they want us to see what they want us to see.
Many people have a hazy idea of history.

I bet that Festival was great.

Jura Scotland has a population of almost 5 1/2 million, London has a population of almost 9 million. Both voted to remain in the EU. Both are being withdrawn from the EU. Does your sympathy and anguish extend to Londoners too, or is it solely extended to Scotland?

The reason I post as I do on Scottish matters is in an attempt to inform non Scottish Grans on the alternative truths to the spin that the large number of spin doctors employed by SNP (Google it) churn out.
Those photographs are authentic. The language used in some of the banners is deeply concerning. It is unsurprising that Nicola Sturgeon did not march with them.
I was amazed to hear such language actually used in the House of Commons by an SNP MP recently.

There's a two video of the march on YouTube:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0DbHa0AUxk

I haven't watched all of it because watching people marching for two hours isn't my idea of fun, but I have skimmed through it.

I spotted one banner about Israeli apartheid, but it was dominated by saltires, some with EU stars on, a few "Yes" flags, a handful of flags with "Tories out", some kilts, bagpipes and a few Welsh flags and a unicorn (!). Those pictures weren't typical Jane10.

janipat- 22 years ago, Scotland voted for the Devolved settlement by 75% - so no, it is not the same as London- it is a separate country.

As for ardent Imperialism- how many Centuries are people living in Scotland now have to take responsibility for?

Having never lived in Scotland, or have any strong ties to it- I can only comment on what I see and read as an outsider. Jane is Scottish, and lives there - so of course I respect her views and experience. And yet- I somehow feel that Jane's background and Edingburgh 'circles' are just not representative of Scotland as a whole.

The photos are probably genuine- but picked out a very large group of people on a very large demo - in isolation and for a reason- and probably not representative at all of the day.

I’m in Scotland too, Jura and I can assure you, outside the Central Belt, there is as Jane10 says, little support for independence. The SNP has taken away so much from those of us outside the CB. Where I live we have lost control of our own emergency services and we have the lowest funding of all councils in Scotland. That means our schools and other services are struggling. Life in the past five years has taken a serious downturn for this area even though the SNP want the much-vaunted oil that we produce.

The SNP only care about independence, they dont care about its people which is why our hospitals are in decline and even more so, the once-world class education is on a major downward trajectory. The SNP have cunningly hidden this by withdrawing Scotland from all worldwide ranking except PISA. Any challenge to the SNP on those matters is met with ‘Its not as bad as England so we’re doing fine.’

And the much talked about free university comes at a major cost, with many able Scots students being turned away because there are no places for them, unlike RUK and EU applicants.