Post Brexit food

You're not listening to Grandad are you Callistemon
Very funny MaizieD!!

Grandad what do think would happen if trucks are held up and food is spoiled? Who will bear the cost?
From our experience, when fresh food was held up in transit and was less than optimal, the supermarkets refused it (they normally only pay, albeit much later, upon receipt).
The farmer had to bear the cost, threatening his/her livelihood.
Trying to get recompense from the transport company proved impossible. Insurance against these losses would be prohibitive in any case.
I wonder who would bear responsibility if this should happen.

And if the companies trying to import from the EU are holding things up at the ports etc., won't that hold imports from other countries up too?

For what it is worth, I do not feel that anything will happen on the 31st of October at the channel ports or tunnel in regard to delays to vehicles. Certainly many in the Road Haulage industry believe that the ports will not have made sufficient preparation to carry out all the checks and paperwork that will have become necessary for tariffs etc to be implemented.

Therefore Britain could have a period of several weeks before pressure from EU member nation governments insists that the internal market, treaties and structures of the European Union are protected and the rules for third nations trading with the EU are applied to the United Kingdom. The foregoing will then mean that checks at the channel ports and tunnel will have to commence.

Certainly, while we were in Belgium last week investigating whether it would be in the interests of our company to expand the company operations into Europe, it became apparent that many we spoke to on Britain leaving the EU could not bring themselves to believe or even actually thought on the prospect that Britain could leave Europe on a no-deal basis. Therefore all those we met spoke on the assumption that nothing will change in their dealings with any British company into the future.

Indeed it was only when we raised the work our company may carry out in connection with road the transport industry should we expand into Europe that Brexit got discussed at all.

Therefore, it very much appeared that Brexit is not at the forefront of peoples thinking within Europe in the same way that it is in Britain.

Even while working back in Britain this week, I feel that while many working in the transport industry are making what preparations they can for a no-deal Brexit, no one can really bring themselves to truly believe that action will actually take place.

Therefore, and as stated, I do not believe that anything detrimental to frictionless movement of those four hundred vehicles per hour through the channel ports or tunnel will come about on the 31st of October even if Britain crashes out of the European Union with no deal on that day.

Checks and therefore delays will commence at sometime after that date, but when will depend as much in a change of attitude and thinking as will in the physical practicalities of introducing widespread checks at the ports and tunnel I feel.

Coming back from Turin by train to Paris last year we were stopped at a small station on the Italian border whilst the train was boarded by customs officers and the police. It could be that they were looking for someone/thing specific but they are both in the EU with free movement. It took 1/2 hour for this little exercise to be carried out so you can imagine what it will be like on Eurostar trains, Eurotunnel and the passenger ferries, let alone the checks on freight.

I can remember the delays at the ferry ports before we were part of the EU. It was quicker to go through the red light and declare our over the limit wine purchases which the customs officers always let go through without charge because we didn't have cigarettes, spirits, beer or perfume.

Callistemon, in regard to your post @20:42 today, as I stated in my above post that many involved in the transport industry have given little thought to such matters as who will carry the loses for spoiled food products. There seems to be an attitude of "non-belief" that a no-deal Brexit could actually happen.

It has to be remembered that large scale trading with Europe involving the road transport industry has been steadily built up over the last forty-five years. The large scale just in time delivery services and schedules have come about over the last twenty-five years. Those operations have made the British road transport industry one of the most efficient and competitive industries operating within the European Union. Therefore thoughts on delays and the inefficiency those delays could bring about do not come easily or naturally to any level of management in the industry.

In that I feel is the reason no real planning is going into such matters as product loses, as there is no real belief that such situations will or could actually arise.

That thinking and planning will have to begin at some stage, but many in transport seem to be working in a planning vacuum at this point in time due to the three-year-long large scale uncertainties of Brexit.

Do you have any idea, Grandad of how much (if any) food comes into the UK from the EU as 'backloads'?

Because if UK lorries are bringing foodstuffs into the UK as return loads would there be a problem with the EU permits that will be needed for UK lorries going into the EU once we become a third country. I understood that there weren't going to be enough available for all the lorries that work from the the UK to the EU at present.

the British road transport industry one of the most efficient and competitive industries operating within the European Union.

Of course, 'competitive' means very tight margins, doesn't it, Grandad? This would be badly eroded by longer waiting times at ferry terminals.

MaizieD, a large percentage of food coming into the United Kingdom from the European Union is transported by way of backloads on British Hauliers vehicles. The foregoing is much tied up in the efficiency of the industry. You are also quite right that there could well be a problem with the number operating permits granted should Britain become a third nation in the eyes of the European Union.

However, added to the above problem is the matter of many European based hauliers stating they will not wish to undertake operational journeys through the channel ports or tunnel if delays due to vehicle check come about.

Obviously, those European based transport companies would not wish to have their vehicles held up for hours or days on end making no money when they still have twenty-seven other European Union member states they can operate in without problems

should Britain become a third nation in the eyes of the European Union.

Whether we Brexit with a 'deal' or no deal the UK automatically becomes a third country. I don't think there's any 'if' about it...

It's not just hauliers which operate on tight margins, many farmers do too.
Losing just one truckload of produce and the uncertainty over who would be liable and pay out in the event could mean the difference between whether their business survives or not.

Of course not, Callistemon.

There are also all those business which import and export parts for Just In Time deliveries.

It's a remarkable coincidence Brexit food is a thing at exactly the same time large numbers of people are going vegetarian for other reasons.

Not really Alexa people become vegetarian for ethical reasons as well, but I bet more will be reducing or cutting meat out of their diets if we start importing US produced rubbish.

Cutting down meat eating is the best thing people can do for the planet, as meat production contributes more in the way of carbon emissions than all air and road transport combined.

Maizie pointed out that-

"Whether we Brexit with a 'deal' or no deal the UK automatically becomes a third country. I don't think there's any 'if' about it..."

There is an "if" about it Maizie. We don't need to brexit at all.

We could unilaterally Revoke Article 50 and the UK would Remain in the EU, which is what the majority of the UK population want.

Why should we regard this brexit nonsense as inevitable?

I know, as we all know, that there is a real danger of stupidity triumphing so that this self-inflicted damage called brexit is not prevented, but we should all do everything we possibly can to STOP BREXIT.

Crystaltipps, cutting down on meat is also the best thing people can do to improve their health, so a really positive move!

Varian, the wording of your comments (nonsense, stupidity) is insulting the majority who voted for Brexit. How about respecting the fact that other people have different views to your own?

So how is this all NOT nonsense and stupidity? Why would anyone actively choose to disrupt the life of a country on such a massive scale? Are the threats to our democratic systems really going unnoticed?

No one would ever suggest that all those who voted leave in 2016 made a stupid decision, they believed what they'd been told by the leave liars, but since then we have learned many things -

- that the referendĺum was narrowĺy won by fraud, lies, cheating and foreign interference

- any kind of brexit would damage our country by reducing our standing in the world, wrecking our economy and endangering our security for generations to come.

So it would indeed be the height of stupidity for anyone who was aware of these facts to continue to "believe" in the nonsense that is brexit.

“C’est la bulls**t”," head of the French channel ports, Jean-Marc Puissesseau, on the idea of traffic grinding to a halt: “Nothing is going to happen the day after Brexit… Britain will be a third country, that’s all, and there is no reason why this should lead to any problems. If both sides do their homework, traffic will be completely fluid”.

?

One thing people seem to be forgetting are the European farmers who supply much of our food, especially the "Mediterranean" variety such as aubergines and peppers etc. It's possible that they might start to reduce the amount they grow if they think that their produce might not reach England in a fit state. A lot comes from southern Spain where North African migrant workers are used so it's not big deal for the farmers to lay off workers if they decide to cut back.

Back in March I heard a man on James O'Brien's programme who was responsible for the supply chain of fruit and veg for one of the large supermarket chains. He explained that March was the worst time because the supply of home grown produce was virtually finished and the new season's crops would not be ready so we had to import most of our fruit and veg. There should be a reasonable supply of fresh food available in November but how much damage has been caused by the extreme weather conditions that we've been having?

As said, food maybe the least of our worries- as yes, we can adapt and tighten belt, to a large extent.

But medicines and medical supplies are another lettle of fish. the idea that it could all be airlifted is just ridiculous. Here is a message to Jason Hunter, someone who has been a senior international trade negotiator- from someone in the business:

'I got a message earlier in my inbox from a chap that works for a medical supply company. In order not to get him into trouble and at his request I'm changing a couple of points here.

Hi.
I work for a global company that has a number of manufacturing sites in the U.K. We import our raw material from the EU and it has a four to five month delivery period after we have ordered from our supplier.

The question is how will/can our company place an order in November if we don’t know how much it will cost? We won't know what the import tariffs will be for delivery in April onwards. Will the supplier have to decline the order until they know the costs of delivery and insurance etc? How it will be shipped to us? How long will it sit in Calais and Dover? Will it be held up on motorways? Do we need to order in September for April Delivery? Once we know what’s happening wuth Brexit then we need to add on Brexit delays and apply the usual four to five month lead time. Stunned faces from management. The product that we make also takes two to three months to produce in the UK after we receive our raw materials.

And then we are a supplier to other companies who also process our product for another 3-6 months. who will have the same questions for us about 2019 deliveries.

Therefore is the UK going to be short of life saving products for eight months or more? '

These people are NOT scare mongering- they are in the business, have been for a long time and have tons of experience- and they are clearly and acutely aware of the real problems ahead.

Urmstongran '“C’est la bulls**t”," head of the French channel ports, Jean-Marc Puissesseau, on the idea of traffic grinding to a halt: “Nothing is going to happen the day after Brexit… Britain will be a third country, that’s all, and there is no reason why this should lead to any problems. If both sides do their homework, traffic will be completely fluid”.'

I am sorry- we are trying to remain polite- but you used the term first- so I'll repeat 'oui, c'est de la merde de taureau' 100%- M Puissesseau is not going to be the one who decides- he will be sitting in his office and watch from afar.

We are not ready on the UK side, never mind ready for the chaos t'other side. If the French farmers, hauliers and Customs Officers, and many more - decide to block UK hauliers and others- M Puissesseau will be totally unable to do anything.

But first of all, lorries and cars will have to be able to reach Dover and the Chunnel or Ports. You don't quite get this Brexit thing, do you?

Ah! I know who M Puissesseau is now. A couple of days ago I posted a video of a select committee on Brexit arrangements. It was over two hours, so I reckoned few people would watch it, but I did (because I'm a saddo). M Puissesseau's claim was taken apart by the experts on the panel. These were people who really did know what hey were talking about. They pointed out that M Puissesseau has no powers to override the law.

M Puisseseau means 'piss in bucket' - irrelevant I know. But as we have a Dick Brain ... well for balance's sake