A very English Brexit

This might help Nanny41. We have travel plans for Eu after Brexit if and when. Found this Govt link in the Guardian. Can’t comment if anyone knows what’s really happening, heaven help us, but sounds like good advice!

euexit.campaign.gov.uk

I can't see why we are leaving the EU where we have/ had good trade deals, and excellent eu citizen working here. The majority were the young and healthy people doing a good job for this country and paying taxes here. Plus we had the opt outs we wanted. It was the best deal ever. Now we have all stress and job losses and what a waste of money and time on doing brexit. And then it's forecast we'll be in a recession. I'm so sorry for the younger people losing EU citizenship too.
I really can't see any positives in leaving, just problems

Graces Gran, you have a right to your opinion but those who voted to leave are entitled to theirs. I marvel that those of us born before the Second World War managed to live a perfectly normal life before the EU. Once the war was over we lived without the EU. I could accept the European Economic Union, but the mission creep since those early heady days has been inexorable. If I was Scottish or Irish then I would love the EU because both countries are net recipients of a lot of money mostly paid by Germany the UK and France. You will recall we held a referendum and the majority of those voting want to leave England voted overwhelmingly to leave if you look at the Constituency results. That is what we call democracy.

I am a working class child from a Council house in Liverpool who won a scholarship to grammar school. I married too young and struggled but by the time I wa in my 50s I had an MSc from LSE so us working class girls could get ahead by sheer hard work.

I am a dreaded Tory and actually voted as a member of the Party for Boris Johnson. I have no envy for other people who do well. Boris Johnson won a scholarship to Eton proving he has a real brain.

I love Scotland but not the SNP. I would not be that sad if they chose independence but how they will manage without the Barnett formula money they receive fro central govt will be interesting. The EU may not have as much money for the Scots and Irish when we leave. I nearly laughed aloud at 5he suggestion we are not ruled by the EU. What about the European.Court and the treaties which if a nation does not agree, they keep voting until they do. All very boring nonsense. I do not post often here but we are not all left wingers. I think that Magic Grandpa Corbyn would be a disaster for the UK and that the machinations of the remainers in Parliament will see them deselected when the next election comes. We live in interesting times.

I feel we are careering towards the Brexit cliff edge and despite many of us trying to apply the brakes there is nothing that can stop us. Or is there?
unitetoremain.org.
It worked in the Brecon by-election.

Anniel your post is somewhat contradictory. You are, like most of us I hope, pro-democracy and you say ^You will recall we held a referendum and the majority of those voting want to leave England voted overwhelmingly to leave if you look at the Constituency results. That is what we call democracy^. but then you talk, with relish of what may happen to the remain supporting Mps ^the machinations of the remainers in Parliament will see them deselected when the next election comes^. Can I just point out that not everyone voted for Brexit and that MPs have the responsibility to represent all of their constituents, not just those who voted to leave? This applies to both Tory and Labour MPs by the way before you accuse me of being a 'leftie'

Anniel "I marvel that those of us born before the Second World War managed to live a perfectly normal life before the EU. Once the war was over we lived without the EU". Yes, of course we did but life is very different now. Do you want to go back to those days, no Internet, no central heating, limited range of food, living hand to mouth, no foreign travel. You simply cannot compare life so long ago to life today. We need to look forward and remember the sun didn't always shine in those day.

We never knew as much about the EU before the referendum. It’s a dreadful undemocratic organisation. We need to be free of it before we are engulfed by it. As for Scotland. They are protected by the UK, would need their own military without us.

Come on Grans. Think of the future for our children, where we would have to adhere to all EU rules, protect their pensions, look after all the failing states and their populations at the expense of our people.
It’s a gravy train and one they wish to protect, better the devils we know

As and English person living in Wales, the Brexit argument has filled me with dismay and I now hate the Tory Party with a passion for creating this mess. I was against Scottish Independence when they first had the vote but I now think they should have their independence. I shall be campaigning for Welsh independence too. The sooner Scotland and Wales break from England the better. England is much worse for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales than the EU is.

What utter nonsense is spouted here ,Scotland is NOT subsidised by England ..fact .Philip Hammond recently admitted that without the input of Scottish cash the treasury would be in dire states ,unable to pay their debts .

Secondly WHY as a PARTNER in this disunited union should we have to ask permission to have a referendum? Nobody asked our permission to run the Brexit referendum ..it was just landed on us.WE voted by 63% to REMAIN in the EU .Thats a larger margin than voted leave in the rUK .

Scotland is currently the dumping ground ..literally for old subs ,and current Trident..though not so current as its an out of date system that has masses of issues .

The vast majority of Scots dont want it here ,when polled 82% said take it somewhere else .Its sited 20 miles from our largest city and would destroy the whole central belt if there was an accident ...a serious accident .There have been over 200 "incidents " in the last 5 years involving the nuclear"deterrent"
We have plans in place for our own forces and security.Surely we should remember the 280,000 needless deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki on these days in 1945 and make sure that innocents dont have to suffer the loss and maiming on that scale ever again .

Pensions ? You have heard of WASPI women ,scammed out of an average of £40.000 by westminster ?

Scotland will flourish without the UK (england) dragging us under .Lord Ashcrofts poll released this week shows a support of 52% FOR independence and thats without counting the EU nationals who live here or teh 16/17 year olds who are entitled to vote .

I wish my English friends and family no harm but honestly we have to be in control of OUR country and run it to suit the people of Scotland not the Elite of Westminster and Buck house

Great link, Railman. Plus ca change...

grannygranby - hear, hear!

**Jayemwhite
Absolutely, well said . I agree with every word*

GillT57, I should have been clearer re the Deselection of MPs both Conservative and Labour. I mean the remainers and leavers who are MPs who ignored the votes of their constituents. I do understand that parliamentary democracy allows for MPs to decide how to vote regardless of their constituents but in the case of Conservative members they stood on a manifesto that declared that they supported Brexit and then they reneged. I am sure you are aware that Corbyn has always wanted to leave the EU until political expediency changed his mind.

Paddyann, with regard to Scottish Independence, any idea why we don't all get to vote? After all, you leaving would have an impact on England/Wales/NI. You've said so yourself.

So I did wonder why we didn't all get to vote on it. I have a strong suspicion that if we all voted you'd get your wish.

Just interests me as to why it's just Scots.

I'm sorry that at least one member left because she thinks Gransnet should be politics free.

Politics is about the way the whole population is organised, our individual and collective duties and responsibilities to ourselves and our fellows. If such issues should not be important to us what the heck is more important?

Whatever you're political views are we should be willing to discuss and even argue about politics; after all it is about lives.

I don't think it should be politics free. I try to keep away from the political threads as it's all a bit pointless really but I just can't help myself.

It's easy enough to steer clear from these threads if you want to.

I agree there’s no need for GN to be politics (or religion) free but surely reasoning adults ought to be able to read and respect another’s point of view without resorting to nastiness.

I think that’s why folks withdraw - they know they’re be attacked for their beliefs. Wrong on every level.

growstuff. Don't they ?Well you could have fooled me.

Strictly speaking if the UK, or parts of it, leave the EU citizens of the leaving countries can be classed as "Third country citizens", which gives countries they want to visit de the right to decide whether they will need visas to do so, or not.

As far as I know, nothing has yet been said about the EU parliament decided that holders of British passports will need a visa to enter any EU country. Right now, it sounds as if it will be up to the individual country to decide this, but I may be wrong, or this may change.

It would after all be easier if all EU countries had the same ruling about the need for visas, or simply decided that a valid British passport did not require a visa.

Apart from that, if Scotland leaves the UK, some kind of border and border control between Scotland and England will presumably become necessary - but that will be for the Scottish and English parliaments to sort out.

If Scotland leaves the UK and Northern Ireland does not, presumably border controls will be established at the ferry harbours and airports between these two countries, as well.

Nobody in the EU seems seriously to consider that Scotland might become a republic and wish to remain in the EU, so whether Scotland could automatically remain if an independent country would be a matter for the Writers of the Signet and the EU's lawyers to try to come to an agreement about. It might well be that the Republic of Scotland would have to seek to join the EU.

Sorry, I don't think we will see a re-emergence of a Scottish Monarchy, as it is extremely doubtful whether Bonnie Prince Charlie had any legitimate heirs.

Obviously, Scotland could elect a king or queen, but is that really likely to happen in this day and age? Anyone fancy the Duke of York or the duke of Hamilton? Most supporters of an Independent Scotland are likely to be those who either are staunch Scottish Nationalists or Labour - people in other words who are highly unlikely to be royalist in their views.

Do you want to be rid of the Royal family? What do you want to replace it with?

I’m a New Zealander who came to this country in the 70’s and I’m disappointed at what I have been hearing and seeing over these past 3 years. Everyone needs theirs heads banged together. And before anyone tells me to go home, my DNA analysis says I am 93% english - much higher than the average in this country.
I came to the UK having spent 18 months living in the apartheid regime of South Africa. Britain was like a breath of fresh air and a guiding light in fairness, sensibility, intelligence, knowledge, morality etc - and I know there as those who would say that is rubbish - it’s not compared to what many oppressed countries have to deal with. Britain was seen as a light in the world and still is because of those qualities but the Brexit business has saddened many to realise Britain too, can succumb to Populist madness. Yet at the same time, back in the 70’s, it seemed like a poorer place with poorer housing, people looked as if they’d bought all their clothes from second-hand shops and personal wealth was not visible. I recall it being quite a depressing place. The only positive sides were no obesity as we know it today and a good education was more valuable than being a celebrity or showing off your wealth.
Since being part of the EU, most people have had a better standard of living. You can move freely to many places people in other countries can only dream about visiting, you have a fantastic array of cheap foodstuffs in your stores, yes, cheap compared to some places outside the EU, you have an amazing choice of cars, electrical goods, and don’t even mention the range of fashion goods. And that will all change.
I heard someone say that the British are like spoilt kids who are now throwing toys out of the pram because we think someone else is getting more than they are. And things would be better is we can take back control... what does that mean? We have our own sovereignty, our own parliament and we agree with most EU laws and have instigated many of them..?? And when we talk about faceless bureaucrats, that’s our own elected MEP’s we voted for!
We need alliances in many shapes and forms but some are now being dismantled because of the Brexit madness to the detriment of people in this country.
My NZ father and grandfathers fought in the World Wars and they would believe, like many of their generation who fought, that being part of the EU is beneficial to everyone living in this region to avoid such conflict again. Unity is strength.
Sometimes we need to get out of our comfort zone to appreciate what we have.
To anyone who wants to batten down the hatches and put up the barricades, that’s a very Populist reaction and doesn’t do anyone any good. For those who pander for the good ol days, when we’re those? Fantasy days of your childhood, like the 70’s when you rightly had no cares in the world? Of course you wouldn’t, you were a child, but your parents would have been well aware of the economic problems around at that time.
As I said, I’m sadden by it all and feel sick at the thought of this great country risking everything it has, for what - exactly ...

We can veto every proposal put forward by the European Parliament and we elect our own EU MPs. We are NOT ruled by the EU and never have been. This is another piece of disinformation put out by the Brexiteers.

If you follow the logic about other areas of the UK voting on Scottish independence, why didn't the 27 other EU countries vote in our referendum?

Exactly, Misha. It's absolute nonsense.

Notagranyet, It sounds as though you're doing pretty well as a pureblood claimant (see another thread for an explanation).