A very English Brexit

FC61 Wed 07-Aug-19 12:40:41,
Gizzy48 Wed 07-Aug-19 12:53:11

I thought both your post explained things well. I just wish we had an "I agree" box at the bottom of posts.

You will recall we held a referendum and [of] the majority of those voting want to leave England voted overwhelmingly to leave if you look at the Constituency results. Wed 07-Aug-19 13:05:33

I hope I am reading this correctly Anniel. If so you are repeating what I said in the OP. This was a very English Brexit as you will no doubt "recall" that Scotland voted for remain as did Northern Ireland and you may even be aware that Wales now seems to have changed its mind.

I agree this is how democracy works. When offered an advisory referendum we vote to advise Parliament. However, democracy did not stop on one day in 2016 - or do you believe it did?

JillyBird - I take your points, but clearly I would disagree with certain aspects. This for instance:

3. I don't want to be a member of the United States of Europe and neither do I wish to contribute to a "peace-keeping" force (army) for Europe which is the next thing mooted.

It was Winston Churchill who first coined the phrase "United States of Europe" as perhaps the ultimate means of preventing another catastrophic war.

I think though your reference to the "European Army" conflates two issues.

a) The EU Rapid Response Unit - which was set up in 2000, and mentioned in the Daily Telegraph at that time with the inference that "EU launches its own army". Source:: blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/eu-launches-its-own-army/

b) Article 42(6) of the Treaty on European Union (TEU) (*Lisbon Treaty*) provides the possibility for a group of like-minded Member States to take European defence to the next level.

I think the key word in the last statement is could.
Source: ec.europa.eu/epsc/publications/strategic-notes/defence-europe_en

CracesGranMK3 - the inclusion of an agree box is a good idea Graces - hope the admin is listening

This post is not about Brexit it is purely an anti English post. The only intent the OP has is to voice her anti English views and Brexit is just the lever to create a war of words.
In case you wonder. I am not English but from a European country (lived here for over 30 years) and as much as I would have liked to remain in Europe I respect the vote of 2016. GB is the cradle of democracy. Shame about the terrible division and hatred it has created.
There seems to be a trend that the vote of the people doesn’t need to be respected. Nicola Sturgeon is one of those who thinks the Scottish referendum should be repeated until she likes the result

^You will recall we held a referendum and [of] the majority of those voting want to leave, England voted overwhelmingly to leave if you look at the Constituency results. That is what we call democracy. Wed 07-Aug-19 13:05:33

Hope I was reading this correctly Anniel. You are really repeating what I was saying. It is a very English Brexit.

The reason I voted to leave EU is because there are only 5 countries out of 27 who are net contributors. The other countries just take. (Wed 07-Aug-19 18:16:35)

How right Oscar Wilde was when he said (or rather had Lord Darlington say) that a cynic "knows the price of everything and the value of nothing". You are a true cynic newnanny. What price peace within Europe for example?

Wed 07-Aug-19 18:44:00 The agree box keeps being mentioned railman but I don't think GNHQ want it.

Yes, Gracesgran, a 'like or agree' box is an option on other sites and should be on this site too. There are many times when I have agreed with what someone has posted but have nothing to add.

On the subject of a united Europe preventing another war, I can't see the reasoning behind that. The last two wars were caused by individuals not a country. There is always the possibility of another megalomaniac gaining enough support to lay the foundations for war.

Now I have to word this carefully otherwise it will be deleted.

There are now diverse communities with different cultures
being formed all across Europe. This in itself is bound to cause division among people. We have already had several attacks by so-called 'terrorists'.

There are too many people burying their heads in the sand and refusing to accept that there are those taking advantage of the current free movement to enter Europe and carry out the wishes of those who hate the west and seek to destroy it.

The next war will be waged against Europe by outsiders. There have been previous attempts to invade and destroy us. This time it will happen with our full co-operation.

This post is not about Brexit it is purely an anti-English post. (Wed 07-Aug-19 18:50:34)

Well Lumarei, I started the thread and I most certainly didn't intend it to be "anti" anything. I was just pointing a few things out and wondering if we should have an English Parliament. I am English and think it would be a good idea, even a necessity. People decided to discuss other aspects - it happens.

Many folk said in 2016 that they would respect the result of the referendum, but since then we have all learned that the referendum was fraudulent. It was influenced by foreign interference, dark money and won by lies and illegal manipulation of social media.

It is no longer possible for any moral person who believes in democracy to respect the result of that fraudulent referendum.

We do not all want to be Putin's puppets or to be ruled by a dishonest band of billionaire media owners and hedge fund gamblers who would profit from our misery if brexit is not stopped.

The illegal activities which influenced the votes of 17m people (out of a population of 66m) have been proven in court and the only reason that the result has not been annulled is because it was only advisory.

It's not just our contribution which matters. The EU provides a market for our products. The single market/customs union means that, for example, car production in Sunderland is possible. Parts are shipped across borders with no delay, then the finished cars are exported, again with no delay at the border. Nissan has already decided to relocate some of its business to Japan, but it makes sense for them to relocate the European production to Spain (or elsewhere within the EU). Not only will jobs be lost at Nissan itself, but thousands of others in the supply chain and in the outlets where Nissan workers spend their money. That money isn't calculated in the contribution/rebate. Not only that, but some areas of the UK receive massive amounts of EU funding and I wouldn't hold my breath that the UK government will make up any shortfall.

I agree that since the referendum, we are all better informed about what being part of the EU actually means. For me, and for many others, the knowledge has actually strengthened my opinion not changed it!

Why?

And we know why that is, don't we RosieLeah.

Yes, you do. I don't need to repeat what I've already said. The problem is that many people feel the same...just as many people disagree. This is the situation this country finds itself in.

Time will tell whether the decision was the right one. I suspect that once we leave, other countries will follow suit.

Hear, hear, jayemwhite

I have come to the conclusion that the English like & feel more comfortable being bossed about by posh people.
So forelocks out & get tugging.

Yes, well, GrannyLondon. People keep complaining about how standards have fallen in all aspects of life. And when did all this start? When the 'posh folk' took a back seat and allowed all the New Age stuff to dictate how society behaved. That's when the decline started. A lot of the so-called 'right-wingers' are actually very decent people who want to see British society get back to living by decent standards, with children raised to have respect, good manners, and a sense of responsibility.

Since when has there been some kind of New Age dictatorship in the UK? This is turning into a bad farce.

I know we have not paid €18 billion in past but that is the figure if we want to remain after new pay round. The reason we would have to pay more is we have had more growth in uk than they have had on EU. That is another good reason to leave now before they increase price massively. Our growth in last quarter was 0.4 and Germany and France both 0.2 EU doing worse than rest of world in trading. We sell much less to EU than other EU countries. Only 15% of all exports go to EU countries. Most of our exports go to non EU countries. That is why it is not worth amount we pay to trade with them.

Better the right-wing fascist than all this dreadful PC liberal stuff treating everyone as equal hey RosieLeah.

Good grief I have been out for a couple of hours and come back to rosieleah telling us that if only we knew our place and listened to our betters then all would be well. FFS.

For goodness sake,get use to it .....we are leaving the EU & it’s notthing to do with the ‘upper classes’,it’s the ordinary men & women on the street who voted to leave......lots of Scottish,Welsh & English people voted democratically to leave so it’s time people stopped moaning about it & Just got on with their lives.

This thread is turning nasty and should be deleted. Brexit has been voted for and in a democracy that vote should be respected. Everyone had a choice to vote for yes or no in a confidential way. The same as Scotland voted for and against independence from the UK. The majority won. Why start arguing pros and cons of decisions already made?