Is the UK Union now at risk.

Saw a cartoon today that both made me laugh and cry

'Little England will be the death of Great Britain'

I am sad that it is mainly English bigotry, that is putting the Union in danger. That bigotry we have witnessed so frequently in these columns from those suffering from a Brexit dangerous virus, created by sheer spiteful dogma and caught by reading extreme deceitful RW propaganda.
I can understand our Scottish brethren feelings, they want to remain within the EU, I also do but unless Article 50 is revoked my desires will be ignored by Number 10. I feel as if I am being robbed of my birth rights by sheer bigotry.

Hilarious ?

Well said Marthabeck.

I am horrified to be stripped of my European citizenship despite a system in which 62% of my fellow Scots voted no to Brexit.

I've yet to find anyone who actually wants a no-deal exit and Scottish past experiences of Trump and Boris fill me with dread.

I have close relatives who are English and spent two of the happiest periods in my life in English cities.

I completely get that people south of the border were unhappy and felt neglected and unlistened to when they voted to leave the EU, but -- Boris's false cash bribes apart -- not one of these issues will be solved by leaving a friendly, close, trading bloc for unreliable markets and deals further from home.

What is the point of washing, squashing and recycling rubbish and denying myself air travel to be more "green" if we as a country are about to commit to far distant markets and the added expense of two-way trade transport and the huge cost of erecting our border defences against the EU, which are looking more like Trump's insular wall folly?

We had a special place in Europe, with opt-outs and allowances other countries envied. I was proud to be Scottish, British and European. Only one of those sentiments is going to survive into November, I fear, and the European one will be so difficult to wrench back once gone.

Question.

Is the UK Union now at risk.

Yes. It is more at risk because :-

1). The divide over the EU Refendum.

2). If Corbyns Labour wins a General Election, his politics over Ireland for example is only too well known

3). It is also at risk because of the Political pacts/shenanigans /backroom deals that we are witnessing happening between political parties now. Only a fool doesn't see parties who will unite to bring about another Coalition/Supply and Confidence government are going to push for Independence if they are nationalists. Twas ever thus. Chances of a Labour/SNP Coalition, Supply and Confidence government is extremely high.

I still do not understand the reason for Independence being aligned with being in the European Union.

It is a twisted logic to me.

Surely if the Scottish/Welsh want Independence isn't that because they no longer want to conform to accepting other constitutions rules?

The word Independence will continue to mean Semi-Independent as long as it is either in the United Kingdom or the European Union. Within the construct of the UK Union Scotland has devolution but in the European Union it will be a pure rule taker and the EU will in time legislate for it's defense, spending, financial taxes etc.

It seems to have escaped you pogs that the EU is made up of 28 INDEPENDENT countries.They all get the same say in whats happening and what rules are passed.The UK only "lost" in 7 votes in 40 years ....thats a fantastic record.If you see it from a Scottish perspective WE lose EVERY vote in Westminster because London on its own can outvote us ..wheres the democracy in that?

That old myth that we are “ruled by the EU” as if the members don’t have any say.

And 96% of our laws are domestic ones

No we don’t paddyann - as you are reminded on a regular basis, we are part of the U.K. and we voted to stay that way, which means that we accept the overall U.K. vote. You might not like it but that’s the way democracy works - in the same way that the majority of us didn’t vote for the SNP but we still have an SNP Govt

paddyann Sun 18-Aug-19 12:31:17

"It seems to have escaped you pogs that the EU is made up of 28 INDEPENDENT countries.They all get the same say in whats happening and what rules are passed."
----

It seems to me paddyann you don't accept that unless ALL 28 nations who make up the European Union vote in the ' exact same way' then they do not ALL ' have the same say'.

The European Parliament is just like Westminster, made up of different countries, different political alliences who all vote differently and like Westminster there are winners and losers, the highest vote counts. I have witnessed decisions made by the chair counting raised hands at times. MEP's get to vote on the recommendations of the Commission.

I'm not even Scottish (though I live here) but agree 100% with paddyann. Given the chance I will vote (again) for separation. National identity is a con perpetrated by the rich and powerful to get the poor to die in their wars so even if I were Scottish i'd not be a nationalist. I'd be voting to escape the corrosive ineptitude of Westminster. Nothing to do with hating a nation - I just cannot abide the Etonion (and other public school) buffoons who've messed up time and time and time again.

Well said granny4hugs.

Of course all the 28 nations have equality, “having the same say”, doesn’t mean “voting the same way”.

I don't see where the EU comes into it. The Scots Nationalists want Scotland to be an independent country, no longer part of the UK and ruled from Westminster.

The Scots also voted by a majority to stay in the EU. POGS is treating this as though they would be exchanging rule by Westminster for rule by Brussels. This is absurd. 'Twisted logic' in fact.

No it isn't.

If the EU dictates there will be a uniformity of taxation in the European Union then how can an Independent country in the EU make it's own decision.?

What will happen will happen and we will embrace it and make the best of it. It’s what being British means.....after all we are ALL in it together no matter what we think.

That is a very big if, POGS. An independent Scotland in the EU would have a voice in making that decision.

I'd be really interested if you could identify the figures within the EU who are planning European domination. As the EU is not a sentient being but merely a regulatory body there must be some plotters in there somewhere who are planning to obliterate 27/28 individual nation states and create a new superstate. Who are they?

There is some heavy reading to be searched for but this might explain why I posted.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-tax-policy-veto-scrap-european-commission-brexit-ireland-a8729396.html

Not the full account:-
' EU announces plan to scrap member state veto on tax policy
Commission says EU should move to qualified majority voting for tax

The European Commission has proposed scrapping member states’ veto on tax policy, in a move that could see levies imposed on EU countries against their will.

Brussels says the requirement of unanimity for tax policy is out-dated and that moving to a system of qualified majority voting would help speed up the legislative process.

The bloc has struggled to agree ambitious policies such as a tax on US tech giants because of opposition from low-tax countries such as Luxembourg and Ireland. "

" Launching the policy in Strasbourg on Tuesday, European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said he was “strongly in favour of moving to qualified majority voting and a stronger voice for the European Parliament on the common future of taxation in our Union”.

"Other policy areas, such rules governing corporation tax and VAT, would follow - with final implementation expected to be around 2025."

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The EU, Junker in his State of the Union Address et al have mooted alignment of the Euro and taxation for ALL member States over time.

Happy to be corrected.

OK, POGS, Juncker, who is just about to end his term of office, wants QMV and alignment of taxation. Who else? Or is one man 'the EU'?

How do the 27 member states feel about this issue? If they don't want it it won't happen (or will this mysterious entity 'the EU' overrule them all?)

Gove has just lied about Operation Yellowhammer which spells out the reality of the consequences of a no deal brexit.

He has said Yellowhammer is a " worse case scenario". That is a lie.

Yellowhammer describes the most likely scenario. There is another scenario, code named Black Swan, which is much much worse and describes a worse case scenario.

Utterly despicable!!

They've been at it all day. James Cleverly was sent out this morning with "corrections" this morning. If it wasn't so serious it would funny because they are coming over as very, very cross that their ickle plan isn't being supported by everyone. There is definitely an "oh, diddums" moment on the way.

The "Yellowhammer document" disclosure only confirms what Richard Burnett the chief executive of the Road Haulage Association has been stating for more than eighteen months in regard to disruption through the ports.

However, I have no doubts that we shall still witness the "fingers in ears and heads in the sand" Brexteers claiming there is nothing to be concerned about, even when these documents come from a source within the current government.

Sadly, yes!

Here is an extract from the latest statement by the Road Haulage association:-

The 7000+ members of the Road Haulage Association who, between them operate nearly 50% of the UK’s 496,000 lorry fleet, the prospect of a future without a Brexit deal looks extremely bleak.

A no-deal Brexit will create massive problems for international hauliers – whether UK or mainland Europe based. It is time for a reality check.

For supply chains, the customs controls and the controlling of lorry movements are the key issues. Should there be no deal and customs controls are established for UK hauliers at every European border, the knock-on effect will be crippling.

According to RHA chief Executive Richard Burnett, “The Dover Strait handles 10,000 lorries each day and processing them through the port is currently seamless.

“The stark reality is that if customs controls are put in place, it will take an average of about 45 minutes to process one truck on both sides of the channel. If that happens then the queues of HGVs in Kent will make the jams seen in the summer of 2015 appear as little more than waiting for the traffic lights to change.”

At every European border...

There goes our logistics industry...