Liberal Democrats

Glad Vince Cable is out the way, he was a pain.
My Lib Dem leaflet through the door this morning went straight in the recycling- only had to see the words- ‘Stopping Brexit’ or as JS would say ‘Stopping BREGZIT’ for me to read no further.

So you're not interested in their policies on the NHS, Education, Climate change etc. Would you eagerly read all of a leaflet that had the words Get Brexit Done? Is that all that matters??

Calendargirl: Glad Vince Cable is out the way, he was a pain.

What did Vince Cable do that made him a pain?

Labaik No, I’m not interested in their policies on the NHS, Education, Climate Change etc., because their main thrust is to Stop Bregzit, which I don’t agree with.
Greta Vince Cable always seemed so negative about things, and his attitude to the referendum result annoyed me.

maizie D
I am afraid no one is helping the poorer guys in society because, they will not get rid of WFTC, revoke the sale of council homes. Build council homes instead of Housing Societies doing this. Getting people into work by raising standards in education, not everyone can have a degree (as is at the moment). Get people into work with good old fashioned City and Guilds apprenticeships provided by government lecturers and day/block release. Get rid of rubbish degrees that are pointless to them, society and encourage pointless debt.

No one is offering any hope to lift people and give them the hope of a decent job.

When was the last time you tried to get a decent plumber, electrician, builder etc.

CoolioC How do Labour policies not cover all those issues? They certainly do with regard to apprenticeships and Council House building.

Because they have covered them in the past and done nothing. The buying of council homes came in under Thatcher. Labour have been in power since then, they have not reversed this. Same, with apprenticeships. Ended during the very early 1980’s replaced with YT scheme. Not reversed.

Lip service?

I wonder how many Labour supporters purchased their council houses?

Tony Blair has no interest in school leavers having apprenticeships - he wanted 50% to go to university and that’s why we now have shortages of all trades.

Pantglas2
Agreed. Many labour supporters probably purchase their council homes.

Tony Blair was one of the worst PM’s the UK has every had, along, with his sidekick Gordon Brown. They along with the 1980’s government of conservatives both led to the skills shortage of today.

I prepare to be shot down!

I am a Lib Dem. I joined the Liberal Party in 1972, my husband in 1959. That's 107 years between us. Ther've been ups, there've been downs. There have been Liberal MPs who've let us down (we thought Cyril Smith was a lovely bloke when we met him in 1978 and other years, likewise Jeremy Thorpe), there've been disappointments, (well, a lifetime of disappointments in the polls!) but there is simply no other party that has ALWAYS accorded with our beliefs of equality for all irrespective of gender, sexual preference, colour or creed, and a belief in sharing the world between all who live in it.

Yes, we have cringed at times, but then gone to a Conference and met up with such clever, honest and open people and been revitalised (no, not brain-washed).

The 5-year alliance from 2010-2015 was never a partnership. Nick Clegg was a lackey to Cameron, an oil rag to the mechanic. He had to grovel and kow-tow to Cameron to get anything put forward, and when he did success it was passed off in the press as Cameron's policy.

Nick Clegg has been portrayed as the man who let students down, but all parties identify policies they would introduce if in power and the fact is that the Lib Dems were not in power at all. Nick Clegg's mistake was in promising the abandonment of tuition fees to the students in his own constituency of Sheffield Hallam where there are two enormous universities. I was there at the meeting subsequently when he faced those students to tell them why he had had to renege on his intentions, and the vehemence was nowhere near as pronounced as was reported in the press.

Anyway, if we want to stay in Europe, which we must for all manner of reasons, there is only one party that is unwavering on this - the Lib Dems.

In High Peak (adjacent to Sheffield Hallam) we have a superb Labour MP. One of the hardest working constituency MPs in the country. She SAYS she is pro-remain. But how do we know? She hasn't rocked any boats for fence-sitter Corbyn since her election in 2017. She has toed the line. So why should anyone believe that voting for her will at all advance the aim to remain? We have a Tory candidate who is yet to put up a poster, so no wasted effort there then. And suddenly ALL parties have become Green overnight. Well, those who drive gas-guzzling 4x4s who vote Tory are being disingenuous in that, aren't they? And I am being facetious, so I will end now, and say how delighted I am that this forum brings forth so many sensible and well-justified comments on the political issues of the moment and I wish you all well in the forthcoming election. Get as many fence-sitters as possible out to vote on the day and make the result at least arguably democratic.

Madmeg

Well said, Meg

A group of 60 business leaders have backed the Liberal Democrats in an open letter, insisting Jo Swinson's party is the only one with a "credible plan for future prosperity".

The endorsement by entrepreneurs including the founders of Zoopla and Superdry comes as a boost to the Lib Dems in their bid to outflank the Conservatives on the economy.

The party has pledged to run a current budget surplus every year in order to avoid adding to the UK's stock of public debt.

The open letter shared with i says: "There is a big task ahead if we are to build a prosperous, fair, inclusive and sustainable economy fit for the 21st century.

We must do more to address social and geographical inequalities. We need to act boldly and urgently to tackle the climate emergency. And we must create more quality jobs and investment if the UK is to truly prosper from the Fourth Industrial Revolution. Success will require govern
It also calls for a closer relationship between Britain and the EU, concluding: "The Liberal Democrats are the only party who have set out a credible plan for future prosperity that addresses these strengths and challenges, and we strongly welcome their commitment to working in partnership with business to achieve this vision."

inews.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-2019-business-leaders-liberal-democrats-economy-conservative-1328566

Thanks Madmeg. Most I my family have joined the LibDems after being Labour voters all our lives. The Labour Party and LibDems were always very closely linked here and have always worked well together, so I find it sad that there is what seems to be so much animosity between them. All the people we know in the party are just genuinely nice, lovely people who want the country and the world to be a better place, and LibDems have spoken for me both before and since the referendum; the only party that have done so [apart form the SNP MP's who have been brilliant; ditto Caroline Lucas]. I've always said that the LibDems reined in the worst Conservative policies when possible, but it was always going to end in tears and it's wrong that they're getting all the flack from years of Tory policies. My dream is that Labour and the LibDems can work together and make this country 'nice' again...

Post deleted at user's request

@MikeDaviesLab

9h
Jo Swinson: “The most sensible position to put to the public, would be to put Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal to the public against the idea of remaining.”

Straight from the horses mouth: #VoteLibDemGetTory

??Tory / Lib Dem Hard Brexit vs Remain

♦️Labour soft Brexit vs Remain

twitter.com/MikeDaviesLab/status/1202376034663960576?s=20

If the Libdems were to gain a majority which seems unlikely Article 50 would be revoked. Otherwise the Libdems support a second referendum, with a choice between Johnson's deal and Remain. This is the same policy as the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Green Party.

None of these parties support the Tories.

CoolioC Thatcher said that Tony Blair was her greatest achievement. I did not vote for Labour under Blair or Brown and it is true that Blair should have done more with regard to housing and he is largely responsible for the problem with apprenticeships because of his academic snobbery. He once said that 80% of people should go to university. I doubt that many even want to.
That was why there has been a battle by the left to take back control of the Labour party and it has caused massive internal problems. Most of the Blairites have now gone though and virtually all the problematic policies were voted against by Corbyn and McDonnell.
Blair left government over ten years ago and, although he won't accept it, no one now listens to him.
You cannot seriously believe that the current Labour party is the same as it was under Blair. Why do you think Corbyn has had to fight such a long and hard fight for control of the party? - because he wants to introduce policies that Blair does not believe in.
If you are going to criticise Blair, why ignore the Lib Dem's introduction of the bedroom tax - and if you think they signed up for it reluctantly, you obviously didn't read their facebook page at the time. They aggressively argued for it. People are still being made homeless because of it.
The difference is the way that the current leaders have voted in the past. Have a look at Swinson's record on TheyWorkForYou. She voted for austerity more times than either Jeremy Hunt or Boris Johnson.

Of the three main parties, only the Liberal Democrats have produced a spending plan considered credible by the IFS.

One benefit of stopping brexit is the estimated £50 billion Remain Bonus.

theconversation.com/a-50-billion-remain-bonus-this-claim-may-not-be-a-fact-but-its-very-likely-128077

Ian Birrell, writing in todays "i" newpaper, thinks that dishonesty and extremism are eroding our faith in politics.

"We are being offered a devil's choice between Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn as neither man deserves our trust. "

He thinks that the Liberal Democrats have had a poor campaign, being squeezed out of debates, "yet Jo Swinson seems sensible if compared with her dismal rivals. Their economic and climate policies are the most practical on offer.

At national level, they (the Liberal Democrats) are the best choice for voters who reject both hard Brexit and the hard left in hope they can restrain the extremists.

In some seats, there is also an argument for tactical voting, especially where there are politicians standing such as David Gauke who have put country before career.

There is no good outcome to this election. Voters are being offer an abysmal and demeaning choice, which highlights the urgent need for political reform."

inews.co.uk/opinion/we-are-being-offered-a-devils-choice-between-boris-johnson-and-jeremy-corbyn-as-neither-man-deserves-our-trust-1335759

varian The FT considers the Labour plan credible as has over 100 reputable economists.
All financial assessments are based on assumptions. The first reports of the IFS assessment were that it was critical of Labour.
This was of course used by all of our right wing media (which is most of it).
It was later looked at more clearly and showed that it found that "Labour's vision is of a state not so dissimilar to those seen in many other successful western European economies".
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/28/ifs-manifesto-labour-economy-investment

General election 2019: Tory and Labour spending plans 'not credible' - IFS

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50585818

Historian Dan Snow endorses Lib Dems over 'profoundly incompetent' Boris Johnson and 'economically illiterate' Jeremy Corbyn

Television presenter laments 'parlous state' of two main parties but praises Jo Swinson and insists Brexit can still be stopped

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-liberal-democrats-dan-snow-jeremy-corbyn-general-election-a9239446.html

I gave up canvassing some years ago because I am not much good at it, but today I think I might (with a bit of luck) have persuaded the checkout guy in Lidl's to vote Liberal Democrat.

He told me he did not like Boris Johnson and our local ERG Tory MP was utterly useless. He also said he was quite impressed with Jeremy Corbyn and so was considering voting Labour.

I pointed out that a Labour vote in this constituency would just let the Tory back in.

We used to have a brilliant LibDem MP (the checkout guy really liked him because he worked had for this area unlike the utterly useless Tory we have had since 2015) and so I suggested to him that if he wanted to get rid of our useless Tory MP he should vote LibDem,

I think he is at least considering it.

Oh varian I honestly do admire you for your tenacity in your politics! This thread, started by you - mid August - and you have been like a one-man-band. Never deviating. Always loyal.

Right up from Sarah Wollaston joining the Lib Dems!

I think Jo Swinson ought to present you with an award for services rendered!
??

Thank you URM. Perhaps if we can STOP BREXIT, she will!

No, you’re pushing your luck now varian‼️
?
Boris will win (sorry).