Liberal Democrats

Greta - in 2016 the Government paid for a 16 page propaganda booklet to be put through every door in the country, telling us why we should vote to remain in the EU. Anyone know how much that cost?
The remain side cheated big time and used taxpayers' money to do so!

Chestnut and CoolioC you are both relying on people having changed their mind in who they will vote for as MP from the last election, so as to achieve a working majority for the Tories. Why then will you not allow for the fact the country as a whole may want to change their mind about Brexit, now they see the full implication. And CC, threatening rioting is just low, riots are never democratic.

Yes, Chestnut, that was the booklet that the Government sent: "Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK." That is not the same as telling us to vote remain. Obviously 17m people did not think so either.

You ask: "Anyone know how much that cost?"
You claim: "The remain side cheated big time and used taxpayers' money to do so!"

I don't know how much the booklet cost. What I do know is that Vote Leave was fined after being found guilty of breaking electoral law during the Brexit campaign.

No doubt you are also interested in the Vote Leave propaganda:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/vote-leave-broke-electoral-law-and-british-democracy-is-shaken

Extracts from the above:

Most British elections are guaranteed by law. If evidence of serious cheating is uncovered they can be scrutinised and overturned in an “election court”, overseen by high court judges.
However, because the Brexit referendum was only an advisory vote there are no legal channels to challenge the result. Only parliament can investigate the result, declare it void or demand a re-run.
Nor have the powerful politicians who fronted the flawed Vote Leave campaign faced direct censure, even as the country is rocked by the tumultuous fallout from a vote that is now known to be flawed.
The Electoral Commission’s report established that BeLeave was operating as an arm of Vote Leave, which had won official status and the taxpayer money that entailed, partly by recruiting Conservative party luminaries.

We of course don’t know people will riot, but of course, we are from the generation that don’t just sit around and talk about it ie poll tax riots. I just think that when the Lib Dem’s seem to think they can just cancel something, they should be careful of what they wish for.

I didn’t riot during the poll tax riots because actually, the poll tax suited me, as I remember, it saved me 400£ per year.

People may feel cheated if something is just cancelled.

Austerity was necessary due to the usual overspend by Labour. It looks like they are going for it again as well.

Are you personally threatening to riot, CoolioC?

Well Varian, I didn’t riot during the poll tax riots as the poll tax suited me. I didn’t riot during the miners strike because I didn’t live that way and knew nothing of their cause. The student riots during the 60’s were a bit pre my time.

How’s that for a politicians answer! There has to be more than several to riot as well.

If we are to be ruled by riots, democracy is indeed dead. Might will be right and the most violent rioters will control all decisions. Mob rule will replace discussion, the weak or slow will have no voice, the old, the disabled, the sick and the timid will hide away from participation in fear of their lives.

Is that what is meant by "taking control"?

Austerity was necessary due to the usual overspend by Labour. It looks like they are going for it again as well.

Do you have a problem with facts, CoolioC?

Labour did not 'overspend'. Labour had to contend with the effects of the Global Financial Crisis, which could have resulted in our high street banks completely failing and huge sections of the UK population losing all their money. If it hadn't been for their prompt action in injecting some £200 billion + of quantitative easing into the economy, taking over some banks and guaranteeing people's bank deposits we would have been in a very sorry state. We were, in fact, recovering from the effects of the GFA before the tories won the 2010 general election. It was the tory 'austerity' policy that kept us in a depression for far longer than we need to have done.

Two articles to read

Can Labour be blamed for the economic crisis?

www.economicshelp.org/blog/14006/economics/can-labour-be-blamed-for-the-economic-crisis/

The role of the media in 'rewriting' the narrative of the economic crisis:

neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/media-forgot-financial-crisis-embraced-austerity/

And prior to that? Labour, Tony Blair and his sidekick Gordon overspent. They pinched the profits of the pension schemes because as Gordon said they shouldn’t be taking payment breaks, non of his business but he still stole from their pots just as BA, BT and other large employers. WFTC was the biggest giveaway in history in 2005 to prop up big business lack of paying anymore than minimum wage. labour passed on all this plus then the financial crash. It’s a fact the Tories have always had to clean up after the reds.

We need to make sure we have a target for all new build homes to be zero carbon. The Conservatives scrapped those plans, but Liberal Democrats would ensure all new homes are carbon zero by 2021. @joswinson at the #ClimateDebate

twitter.com/LibDems/status/1200144954196156416?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Jo Swinson was brilliant on tonight's Channel 4 debate on climate change.

www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/nov/28/general-election-labour-launches-environment-policies-as-johnson-wary-of-tv-climate-debate-live

She was also very good in the interview she gave tonight. Not sure what channel it was on as we were channel hopping.

...I hadn't realised till recently that she went to a comprehensive school...

Didn't even Laura Kuensberg [sp] tweet the other day that it's the Conservatives that borrow and overspend more than Labour?

It’s a fact the Tories have always had to clean up after the reds.
Never a truer word was said CoolioC. And Labour were in such deep disgrace in 2010 I sincerely hoped they would never hold the reins again. What a mess!

Wasn't there a financial crash round about then that was no fault of the Labour government?

There had been plenty of warnings before the crash in 2008 and they had been in power for 11 years by then. Face it, Labour are just bad with finances.

Lib Dem spokesperson came knocking at my door tonight. I was happy to rip up the leaflet he tried to give me, telling him wanting to revoke democratic referendum result was not democratic and they should not be allowed to use the word in their title anymore. They should be entitled the Liberal Undemocratics. I think it is safe to assume he will not come back.

The dirty tricks department is thriving.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/28/revealed-tory-candidates-issued-with-attack-manuals-on-how-to-smear-rivals

What a rude reaction newnanny! Are you always like that? Why didn't you just give it back, so it could have been delivered to somebody who might have read it?

I have a flyer from the Conservatives, which I think I might use to line my kitchen waste caddy - at least it will have served some purpose.

In what way Chestnut? Some facts would be appreciated.

….and they should not be allowed to use the word in their title anymore....then, maybe the Conservatives should no longer be called the Conservative and Unionist Party [or something like that] as they're hell bent on breaking up the union....

Growstuff
I would like to give some samples that really grate me regarding the Labour Party and finances, I know you asked Chestnut.

working family tax credit that the conservatives tried to put an end to around 2015 but there was uproar. This payment is made to families and single people on low incomes. This has artificially held down the minimum wage. This has allowed low paid jobs by low paying tax companies to thrive. I would ask each and everyone when you go for your coffee at these large coffee companies how these people in your towns pay for their homes, council tax, food, water etc. They do so with top up from WFTC which is paid from your taxes. Tell me if that is right. Introduced by labour when they had loads of money in 2005. Don’t get me onto the coffee pickers and how much they get paid from these places. Suffice to say I don’t drink in these places. They are not the only ones of course.

Gordon Brown raiding the pension pots of large industry where contribution holidays had been taken by around 350 firms. This has directly lead to the demise of the final pension salary scheme and to pensioners being poorer now, and without notice. He wasn’t prudent, he was either stupid and didn’t realise the catastrophe he would cause or just a thief. Either way over 100,000 people were directly affected.

These are my two pet subjects regarding Labour and I wouldn’t trust them again between Blair and Brown they completely cocked up the country.

I will get off my pedestal now.

There had been plenty of warnings before the crash in 2008 and they had been in power for 11 years by then.

Both you and MOnica have made this claim, Chestnut but when I searched I couldn't find any examples of these 'warnings'. Would you be able to give me some links to some?

What my searches told me was that the general consensus before the crash was that everything was fine; this included a statement from the Bank of England (which I posted on the thread where MOnica and I were discussing this very thing).

It is more usual for the few people who are making predictions, or voicing objections, which go against 'mainstream thought' to be laughed to scorn.. or ignored. When the governor of the BoE says everything is fine, who is a politician to gainsay him?

While I have a great deal of sympathy for CoolioC's polemic about WTC and low wages I would note that it was Labour who introduced the minimum wage in 1998. In the face of opposition, of course. While we know it was never quite adequate, and it was scaled down for under 25's, it was a step towards improving wages for the poorly paid.

I would ask CoolioC which party in this election is committing to do anything for the low paid? And what are they committing to?

Vince Cable was one of the very few politicians who warned us that the crash was coming.