So he’s done it?

* GrannyGravy13* Fri 30-Aug-19 10:58:27 "If we do not leave on the 31/10/19 then it should be that we remain, and try to change/object to the gradual creep of Federalisation from within the EU." You and I are in agreement on that, except that I would make it "If we do not leave on the 31/10/19 with a reasonable deal that is better than relying on WTO terms . . "

Of course it will mean more uncertainty for businesses - who will not react positively to the news. However it won't look good for BJ if he continues to cry no deal (which businesses don't want) if he's been given more time to negotiate but choses not to. The electorate (who now appear to be wanting to remain if the polls are to be believed) won't take kindly to it either.

On the positive side, it will give Parliament more time to pass the necessary legislation to stop a no deal.

Firecracker123 Fri 30-Aug-19 10:58:00

Nail on head!

No; leaving on the 31st Oct with no deal would just be the beginning. I agree about remain and reform though. We are all, imo, guilty of not taking enough of an interest in the EU and that must change [and I think it will].

Labaik, extending the deadline will just mean more uncertainty for businesses large, medium, small and the "one man bands"

As I mentioned up thread, 31st October must be the end of over three years of arguing round and round and round, it is either, out hopefully with a deal (I am not a great advocate for no deal) or we must remain and get on with trying to effect change from within.

I do hope so.

The polls are interesting. Referendums tend not to be binding unless they suit to Govt of the day. If the majority had voted in the referendum to stay and subequently that changed according to the polls you can bet your life the Tories would have tabled another referendum before you could say 'Boris is a lying scumbag'.

Sounds as though the EU are going to extend the deadline. Have they outwitted Johnson?

A majority, ie more than 50% tell pollsters they want to REMAIN in the EU.

This has been the case for the last two years

Remain is not extreme, it means we don't want to leave.

Leave with a deal is still leaving- it would make us worse off and we would lose our voice, our vote, our veto and our standing as an important member of the EU.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/remain-55-45-second-referendum-brexit-poll/

48% voters did not vote leave so this talk of the whole country getting behind this sh1tshow is ridiculous to the extreme. A week is a long time in politics so 3 years is an eternity.

GGMK3, I voted leave, but in no way would I describe myself as an extremist.

I imagine we have all been insulted at one time or another sadly. If you read my post of Fri 30-Aug-19 09:35:04 you will see (I hope) that I am not an extremist either.

The ERG (... ...) certainly want only a no-deal. The Liberals want only total remain as we are now (there must be a short form for that). They have both been the downfall of those in the centre who accepted that things have to change - particularly politically - and would have backed a good deal.

I do feel the voices of the middle have been shouted out of the discussion and have felt quite tentative about putting that view forward.

The middle ground 'could' be attracted to either of the extremes thus splitting the opinion on a 50/50 basis, give or take, once again.

However, we could look at the three groups as being about 33%, 33%, 33% as this would reflect where they have rested for some time give or take on the day the poll is made. If the middle group the 'leave with a deal' group could attract some from each of the two extreme standpoints (which do not only contain extreme voters) then you would have a group which contained:

a) Content with leave and a deal that includes access via a single market and customs union
b) Currently no-dealers who would actually rather move more slowly than a no-deal and not risk trashing our economy.
c) Current no-leavers who understand that there was a vote and a small majority and an acknowledgement has to be made for this, so would be prepared to accept (a).

Even if this was only 10% of each of the other groups you would have 50%, 20% and 20%. Without going into all the reading I have done around this I think it could actually be 60%, 15% and 15%.

Just my thoughts. We will now, however, all be tied up talking about the legal stuff that the Great Johnson has created.

Defense minister Ben Wallace has been filmed admitting that parliament was being prorogue because of brexit.

I expect him to be in big trouble for telling,the truth - it's not what ministers in Johnson's government are supposed to do.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-suspend-parliament-brexit-ben-wallace-video-prorogue-a9083851.html

These are the two faced politicians governing this country at the moment....

Apologies for the errors and mistakes in the above post, I believe it is a combination of me being overtired and my phone taking an absolute hammering in the last 2 days.

I will reboot it and see how it goes

Grandad1943 hasn’t the government put money to one side to help small businesses? They have promised such assistance.

Also pulling together means (to me) not moaning

Firstly UG it won't just be the small business that suffers but individuals with very little to fall back on.

Secondly, where do you think the government, having run this country down in the way they have, will get extra money from when the people and businesses cannot pay their taxes.

Thirdly the leave voters NEVER stop moaning. They moan day in and day out that people will not, do not agree with them as if they have some god-given right to have what they want!

If/when this turns out to be a very difficult few decades the leave voters, especially the socially right-wing, have already lined up those they are going to moan about. You can be sure the one thing they will never do is accept they played any part in the chaos.

I am sick and fed up of moaning leavers, personally.

SirChenjin, yes, the last month has really been make your mind up time I'm for many businesses II's

Apologies that should be business above not Buumisness. Do not know what happened there, in a an edit I think.

You're not the only one Grandad - DH has many clients who have either done what you've done, or who are making preparations to move if it looks like they will be worse off. They don't have time to faff about and give things time.

This isn't scare tactics, before I hear the usual doom monger accusation, it's reality now.

Nanoftwo, yes, my wife and myself began the Buumisness in 2003 and it "took of" in a way we could only dream of due to the help of a previous employer of mine. I was joined by three persons who I knew previously from my work in industial/workplace safety.

They are all partners in the Business now along with ourselves, and last night the meeting to make the final decision on the Belgian move went of until 10:00pm.

However, sadly we all felt the business had no other option in view of it's future.

One thing we do know for sure is that Cummings is pulling all the strings and his game plan of brinkmanship is being faithfully followed by Johnson and his skill as a ventriloquist clear each time Johnson or a member of the cabinet opens his/her mouth.

What happens on Oct 31st when Cummings goes?

Grandad1943 it must be such a worry for you. I hope a deal is reached to keep your company operating and thriving in the UK.

Ultimately when/if Britain leaves the European Union it will be the statistics and the size of the market that will decide the future plans of commercial interests at presently located in Britain.

In the above, the British domestic market is approximately 60 million people. However, the United Kingdom has easy, free and seamless access to a European market of approximately 480 million people.

However, should Britain leave the European Union with no free trade agreement or customs union them that seamless access will no longer exist?

Many businesses whose primary location is at present in Britain will, Without doubt, find relocation to a European Union based member nation a very big commercial attraction.

My own company has reluctantly decided to take such action in the last two weeks by way of opening an office in Belgium, while at present we will maintain our offices and operations based in Somerset and London. However, that could become a reducing operation dependent on under what circumstances Britain leaves the EU.

We have had to make the above sad decision due to one (and perhaps two) of our main customers relocating to Belgium also.

I think you are too fond of doing that.

GGMk3 The ERG (and you apparently) certainly want only a no-deal.

Why did you say that? That is incredibly annoying. You can't just second-guess someone's deeply held opinions.

GGMK3, I voted leave, but in no way would I describe myself as an extremist. I have been insulted on various Brexit Threads, which is why I stopped posting on them for a short while.

The leave voters that I know, just want an end to the last three years of wrangling which has got absolutely nowhere, and has been damaging to the UK.

If we do not leave on the 31/10/19, then it should be that we remain, and try to change/object to the gradual creep of Federalisation from within the EU.

Perhaps some on here would like to vet posters and posts so see it they are up to their high standards lol. It's Gransnet not the Political Debating Society.