So he’s done it?

Lemongrove the only time I have been manipulated has been by Mr.Gravy and it cost him 2 designer handbags and our fifth child!!

Yes, very strange thinking that comes up with the thought that because others disagree they must be ‘manipulated’
In fact, it’s laughable.

but about how unscrupulous politicians can gain power by manipulating people

Hmmm.

So, which ones are unscrupulous?

You'd need to look at those who sit in the HOC and put them into either the scrupulous group or the unscrupulous one, wouldn't you, and you'd divide them according to YOUR bias and views.

First decision. Where on earth would Corbyn '-man-of-the-people-I'm-a-socialist-innit-who'll-ditch-long-held-beliefs-cos-my-puppet-masters-tell-me-to' go?

And you imagine (in a superior way?) that people are manipulated? Do you include yourself in that?

Are you are still working with the belief that only people who want to leave the EU don't think for themselves and are easily manipulated, and unthinking. whereas those who voted to remain were above all that sort of stuff? You may have be manipulated into thinking the EU is beyond reproach perhaps?

Many remain voters were band-wagon jumpers who cannot explain WHY we should remain in the EU. Some, with lack of brain-power will utter dross like "Well, it's racist, innit?" Then pursue it further and they say they don't want borders (so they favour world wide unchecked immigration....sigh) and then come unstuck when that principle is challenged.

They'll then say things like "Erm, well it's my future." I'll say it's everyone's future, so how do you see your future being adversely affected? (I have actually had this conversation in a pub.) Well, it's travel. I like to go to Spain. It's gonna be hard and they'll hate us. I explain they need us Brits to still go and seek the sun there because they really appreciate the British holiday maker spending money on the Costas and keeping a much-needed seasonal economy afloat, so they aren't likely to be putting up barriers any day soon. I could go on. They'll say vacuous things like "It's the economy, what about BMWs in the UK?" I remind them the EU markets will be available and UK markets open to the EU too once we are out, and, big bonus, there are other large markets too, and that we were the fifth biggest economy in the world before we joined the Common Market and today we are...oh yes, still the fifth biggest economy in the world.

When you have had a few conversations with Remainers (outside GN, naturally , because Remainers here have told us so many times they are of a superior intelligence -given they suggest Leavers are 'thick' at every opportunity) you have to wonder who manipulates them into thinking the EU is our saviour and without it we are doomed.

Your pile of 'unscrupulous politicians' is likely to be different from everyone else's. Not only that, surprise, surprise, quite a few people like those pesky leavers you so despise did their own research, investigations and thought for themselves before voting. It's insulting to suggest Leavers were manipulated, as so many here do. They were no more manipulated than Remainers, many of whom cannot tell me why they think being in the EU (which costs us millions every week) is a good thing.

Thanks GG.

It looks like Monday at 9 p.m. on BBC2. WW and Labaik.

(Fri 30-Aug-19 13:12:29)

There is a spectrum from Remain to Leave Varian. I have said this before but ... I voted to remain. I did consider voting leave but it is only the political part of the EU that concerns me and I decided to vote remain. Someone with very similar views could have voted leave.

So going out from there you reach the extremes of the spectrum, all-out leave or all-out remain. That does not mean someone with those views is an extremist in any other way. But their views on Brexit are at the extremes of the spectrum.

In the same way, I say that roughly a third of people want to remain in exactly the way we are, no worries about any bit of remaining. You, on the other hand, shout at me (not in an extreme way of course) that over 50% of voters tell pollsters they want to "to REMAIN in the EU" ((Fri 30-Aug-19 13:12:29). That 50%+ includes me. The "third" I described does not include me. I was trying to show that it is not actually 50%± wanting straight in or out and it never was.

However, you don't want to hear that and neither do those on the extreme leave end of the spectrum so compromise is very difficult if not impossible.

lab I’ll get back to you on that might pm as the thread will have whizzed on

I'll be interested to see what you think of it; I have to rewatch the last part as I nodded off [not because it was boring but it was @ 3 in the morning!].

Day6 in regard to your post @-16:21 today, you refer in that post to British businesses/employers relocating to European Union member states to exploit low paid workers who have no trade union protection etc. However, nothing could be further from the facts.

In regard to wage rates, all member states now have minimum wage or hourly wage regulations but each state is allowed to set that rate of pay in accordance with the development of that state's economy.

In terms of working hours and safety, all member states are controlled by various EU Directives with Britain being the only member state to have been allowed to opt-out of the maximum working hours' regulations.

In terms of transport, the regulations are again set under EU Directives (for example, EU Drivers hours regulations and EU Vehicle Construction and use Regulations) and therefore apply to all member states.

In terms of employment security, many member states operate redundancy and dismissal regulations that are far in excess of regulations applicable in the United Kingdom.

In terms of employee organisation, many EU member states apply rules which are far harsher on employers in regard to trade union recognition than the little which is imposed in Britain.

Therefore, I do not believe that any British company is relocating to the European Union to exploit workers and the regulations that surround their employment.

However, if you are referring to the illegal employment of migrant Labour then that is a problem of policing those regulations and not the regulations themselves. In the foregoing, the problem of "black economy employment" is endemic within the United Kingdom workforce as it is in the European Union.

Got that on record.

There was also a documentary on last night about how both armies in WWII used amphetamines. It had a 2 star rating in the Times but I really enjoyed it [actually enjoy isn't the right word; it was pretty graphic]. Was called WWII Speed I think. So a lot of the Dunkirk spirit was probably down to using uppers and downers. Maybe the government should start distributing them to people now. Oh; silly me. Probably won't be able to get them after Brexit...

labaik ? love history and the lessons it can/ should teach us.

It's not just about about Nazi Germany but about how unscrupulous politicians can gain power by manipulating people. I guess parallels can be drawn with Animal Farm also. Sadly it will probably coincide with Coronation Street/Bake Off/Britains Got Talent etc which is what most people seem to be more interested in....

You should watch it and make up your own mind - you’ll either get a good lesson in history and be surprised at the parallels or feel vindicated. Either way you can’t lose.

Am sure many will, on here, and will tell us all about why we are just like Nazi Germany.

Absolutely NanKate ??

Can’t hurt to watch it, eh lemon?

Are you serious??!

?

'Could we possibly leave Hitler and the Nazis out of the thread, or is it too much to ask?!
Sigh.'...someone I know who has studied pre war Germany extensively has been telling me for a long time that the parallels with that era are terrifying. I believe there's a new BBC series starting on Monday about that time that will be worth watching.

WW Mk 2

"Week after week she stood pleading with parliament to accept her WA but traitors like Johnson joined forces with the opposition and consistently voted her WA down"
--
"I meant that Johnson was being a traitor to his political party. He voted the way he did for personal ambition."
-

How does Johnson, a Conservative, become a TRAITOR for joining forces with the opposition and voting against the Withdrawal Agreement?

You praise other Conservatives such as Dominique Grieve, Anna Soubry, Sarah Woolaston when they were Conservative MP's for joining the opposition and voted against the Withdrawal Agreement.

You are not consistent in your reasoning but consistent in your hatred of the man which is your perogative but if you make a statement about his behaviour why do you think your reasoning should not apply to those who did the exact same ?

Delighted growstuff - study the manifesto fir the new Queens speech especially on education

Such as Neilspurgeon? Care to come back in a few months and deliver a progress report?

It's not a "last resort". The parallels are obvious. It's about the way populations are manipulated for the benefit of a few.

Lest we forget!

Yippee, at last a PM with enough gumption and drive to actually get this dreadfully stagnating situation cleared away so we can get on with the REALLY IMPORTANT things the country needs to get sorted