Stop the Coup

Have you read the Bloomberg articles, Lemon?

If you haven't, it would be a good idea if you did.

The next article "Boris Johnson’s Move: Maybe Constitutional, Definitely Not Democratic" explains very well why what's happening isn't democratic.

This is not new lemon. All across the EU and all across the world people have thought we were nuts ever since the fraudulent referendum of 2016.

The French and German newspapers saying that they think
we are nuts.....I have heard everything now!?
Of course, they realise how much more money they now have to plug the hole with, once we have left, that won’t go down well.

I didn’t say every single person was wrapped in an EU flag....
Many had EU hats! Or carried smaller EU flags, or carried placards saying Stop Brexit.
Of course there were some only there because they think suspending Parliament is wrong, but far more were carrying placards and shouting ‘ No to a no deal Brexit’ etc.
You have to get real about these things.

Bloomberg commentator, clearly staggered at developments in the UK, attempts to enlighten folk in the USA-

"Dear Britain, Where Did It All Go So Wrong?

U.K. politics is making Italy look like a beacon of stability and calm."

www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-09-01/brexit-prorogation-british-politics-make-italy-look-stable

Lots of video and stills of Stop the Coup demos here:

twitter.com/search?q=stop%20the%20coup&src=typeahead_click

Not much sign of people being wrapped in EU flags

Anyone seen the invitation for a party in NL on 31st October? They will be on a beach waving goodbye!

People outside the UK certainly are interested in what's going on!. I've been following the French and German press, which tend to be more outspoken than the UK press, especially with cartoons. There is a common theme running through nearly everything that's written, ie. we all knew the British were a bit different, but we didn't realise they're nuts. There is shock that the UK seems to be behaving like some third world dictatorship.

I doubt if many people have such empty lives that they want to copy and paste every vile comment they see. In any case, it would have to be someone with access to every single social media comment to be strictly accurate - there are millions! Posting one comment from one person who supports remain is the tiniest drop in the ocean.

I haven't been wrapped in an EU flag. In fact, there is somebody who has turned up every day, who I know for a fact doesn't support the EU, but is outraged at the prorogation.

You also say that people outside of this country aren't interested in what's happening, but this weekend protests were also in Amsterdam, Riga and Berlin and I have read one article that was in an Australian newspaper. The NYT seem to run regular articles about what's happening and I assume you have seen the Dutch cartoon about what is happening to the 'mother of all parliaments'?

Lemon I saw a few wrapped in EU flags but I certainly didn't see many. I think it is important to stick to facts not to try to impose a view with misleading comments.

Actually they weren't all 'wrapped up in remain flag's. I made a point of not doing so as I felt what was happening was beyond the 'remain or leave argument.And a friends husband, who voted remain but had decided that we should leave because he thought it was democratic to do so was still marching yesterday because he thought that what Johnson was doing now was undemocratic; he then gave an in depth interview with a local radio presenter. The whole thing was cross party; the only absentees being UKIP and Brexit party members.

I think everyone could do the same growstuff from social media on both sides of the fence.There are awful people on all sides of the debate and all political allegiances.
So what though?
I would have more respect for the ‘marchers for democracy’ the other day if they weren’t wrapped up in EU flags!
Proving that the whole thing was mainly those who want us to remain in the EU.

My goodness! I could fill a whole thread with screenshots of vile comment from people who support Leave. I won't because GN would delete them and I honestly have better things to do with my time.

Tensions are high and people say stupid things, but I have honestly seen more vile, inflammatory comments from leave supporters than remain supporters, including from politicians, who should know better. That's quite surprising really because I tend to read more supporting remain than leave, but I try not to live in a bubble.

Still the same then Nonnie

GG hope the dinner was good. You said "There is a video doing the rounds of twitter/Facebook of a remain supporter actually saying that “those who voted leave should be put in the equivalent of Auschwitz and gassed”. I could give you so very many examples of Leavers putting extremely nasty things on Twitter but then we would just batter them backwards and forwards which wouldn't help the thread at all.

I have had 2 sensible conversations with Leavers on Twitter which have ended because they cannot answer my logical questions. However, they were reasonable debates. On the other hand I have had countless nasty comments, without any logical arguments at all. Just rude or unpleasant sound bites.

Enjoy your continued debate I am off to cook dinner (roast pork, crackling and all the trimmings if you are interested)

Coup has no chance now....

"The people vote for a political Party not for MP's " is categorically wrong. There may be many voters who would vote for a donkey in the right colour rosette, but we are asked to chose a candidate from a list of names and the MP, when elected represents all of his or her constituents.

Although parties attempt to control the MPs by the whipping system, it is the duty of each MP to vote and act in what they consider to be the best interests of their constituents and the country.

They must exercise their own judgement, and NOT follow orders from either the constituents or the party.

The Prime Minister is, at any given time, the person who can command the support of the majority of MPs. If the PM is proven to have lost that majority support, the existing members may chose another PM who does have that support.

Giving the potential for legislation to stop no deal next week, I think that those hoping to leave with a deal really ought to welcome it as it is much more likely for a deal to go through the House if no deal is off the table

BUT - Boris and co CANNOT accept any part of May's withdrawal agreement. That deal is beneficial to the EU and would tie us to Brussels indefinitely.

I have started a thread regarding Boris rejecting that agreement completely, otherwise we will leave the EU in name only.

There is no time to re-negotiate, the EU are firm in saying it's May's deal or nothing, so in order for us to leave we will have to go down the No Deal route.

Unless of course you want our troops and fishing waters to remain in the EU's control - and for us to continue giving billions of taxpayer pounds to Brussels.

NO DEAL is the only way forward.

May's agreement must be rejected. Parliament has rejected it three times so cannot complain if Boris takes it off the table. The backstop is only one concern. There are many others.

varian Sun 01-Sep-19 15:54:22

"It is the bullies and liars on the Leave side that have been calling all the shots ever since they cheated their way to a narrow victory in the fraudulent referendum three years ago-" --

If that is your opinion and that were the case the UK would have left the EU months ago.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 01-Sep-19 15:37:21

Giving the potential for legislation to stop no deal next week, I think that those hoping to leave with a deal really ought to welcome it as it is much more likely for a deal to go through the House if no deal is off the table as many in the ERG and hard right would like to crash out, and if no deal is gone then they will go for a deal rather than lose Brexit altogether.
--

Had those wanting a No Deal exit from the EU voted for the Withdrawal Agreement they would have had their way.

The ERG never had ' the numbers' to stop the Withdrawal Agreement but the SNP, Labour, Lib Dems did not shoot the ERG down did they? They voted the same way.

Labour / Lib Dems / SNP et al are supposedly going to legislate next week to stop a ' NO Deal Brexit', with the help of the totally ' partisan' Speaker Bercow.

This group of politicians have voted against the Irish Back Stop by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement.

Barnier/EU say the Back Stop must stay.

Are they now going to show their true colour and agree with Withdrawal Agreement because it is ' them', not a Tory who negotiates a deal? It has been a game of political power after all.

What Deal will Corbyn negotiate? He has to get the Withdrawal Agreement passed before negotiations of trade arrangements will take place if Barnier /EU stick to their red line. ?

The parties involved in ' legislating for a No Deal' and spoke of a Government of Unity are no such thing, they are a sham! The only common denominator is No Deal but if they get that through Parliament what then?

They ALL have different objectives, Revoke Article 50, don't Revoke Article 50, Have a Second Referendum, don't have a Second Referendum, Negotiate a Deal, don't Negotiate a Deal, Respect the result of a second Referendum, don't Respect the Result of a Second Referendum.

It would be a ' Party of Disunity. ' There will be as much if not more squalid backroom deals done, more delay in knowing what will happen, more blaming each other politically.

Can anybody please tell me what will happen if and when Corbyn and Co get into power or Parliament legislates for a 'DEAL ONLY ' exit from the EU? What Deal do they want?

varian Sun 01-Sep-19 14:20:45
In our parliamentary democracy the people elect MPs and the MPs chose the PM,
---

The people vote for a political Party not for MP's to install an unelected Prime Minister from a party that lost a Ge eral Election.

Even if it were Ken Clark the people did not elect him, nor did the party.

There is a video doing the rounds of twitter/Facebook of a remain supporter actually saying that “those who voted leave should be put in the equivalent of Auschwitz and gassed”

Not all calm and polite in the remain camp!!!