Gransnet forums

News & politics

NO DEAL is the only way. The EU 'wrote' the WA Agreement.

(306 Posts)
Day6 Sun 01-Sep-19 17:11:59

and it ties us to the EU indefinitely.

The Irish backstop could be the least of our worries.

May's WA must be rejected completely. It is an incredibly complicated document leaving hardly a subject not covered, and everything in it has been designed to be beneficial to the EU.

I doubt if any MP has read it from cover to cover. Nearly every paragraph is cross-referenced to a Treaty, Regulation or Directive, and each one has to be looked up, read and understood before moving on. It takes hours.

So says John Ashworth in his article This EU-written Withdrawal Agreement is toxic from start to finish

www.conservativewoman.co.uk/this-eu-written-withdrawal-agreement-is-toxic-from-start-to-finish/

It is a very revealing article, written by someone who has made an effort to link the words to the many treaties, acts and sub-paragraphs which determine the UK's role after a decidedly dodgy exit (or non-exit as it transpires) from the EU.

It is very worrying.

He concludes

During any transition period, we would not be classified as a ‘third country’, so although technically one could claim that we had left the EU, in practical terms, we *wouldn’t have done so – rather the opposite*

We would effectively be controlled by the EU to such a degree that we might just as well shut our Parliament down

We would finally become a ‘third country’ on 1 January 2023, as it is doubtful that the EU would consider an extension other than on the previous transition terms, which would essentially mean that we would still not have left the EU in any meaningful way

We would still be paying our ongoing fees, at full rate, to the EU. The EU would still control our fisheries and our armed forces and we would still be subject to the European Court of Justice, with our Parliament still essentially sidelined. No one in their right minds could want us to be in such a situation

We do not want Brexit in name only (BRINO) which is what the WA will give us, if our only request is the dropping of the backstop.

Boris, must be careful. May's WA is a non-starter. Farage, in waiting, understands that the WA has to be rejected - in full.

growstuff Sun 01-Sep-19 19:14:36

mcem Sorry, I was being ironic. I agree with you about the dismissive comments. It's appalling that Johnson thinks that the UK can reclaim Ireland and that Rees-Mogg thinks it's OK to go back to the kind of checks there were in the Troubles. I just can't believe how people can forget so quickly.

Same here re the border problem. I remember posting on other sites "But what about Ireland?" and being dismissed out of hand. I was told it was all part of Project Fear, that I was being negative and that it would all be sorted, etc etc. Well, I'm still waiting for the solution.

lemongrove Sun 01-Sep-19 20:08:27

Actually.....it’s the Remainers on GN who are sounding more than a little weird lately.I suppose the prospect of the UK becoming a reality is starting to hit them.
We leave, either with a better deal, or we simply leave, in 8 weeks time.
I don’t think there is a thing now that the ones who want to stop Brexit can do.
I do wonder how they will deal with this situation tbh, the angst will be overflowing!

lemongrove Sun 01-Sep-19 20:12:12

Missed out ‘leaving the EU’ in the above.

varian Sun 01-Sep-19 20:15:51

The UK has always been a reality. It is still one of the most important and influential members of the EU and long may that continue.

lemongrove Sun 01-Sep-19 20:29:58

Did you not read the above ‘missed out’ words Varian .....
It should read ‘the prospect of the UK leaving the EU is becoming a reality.’

varian Sun 01-Sep-19 20:33:12

That is not a prospect anyone should relish

It is by no means certain that threat can be avoided, but we may be in a much better place by the end of this week.

lemongrove Sun 01-Sep-19 20:37:43

Millions do relish it, and do not regard it as a threat!
Why should the losing side in the referendum win...it would be nonsensical.Yes, we should be in a better place by next week.?

notentirelyallhere Sun 01-Sep-19 21:20:36

I see that the government has launched a £100m campaign to launch leaving the EU on October 31st. That'll cut into the £350m a bit?

crystaltipps Mon 02-Sep-19 06:17:22

Brexit doesn’t equate to a “win” for anyone apart from millionaire tax dodgers and currency speculators. But they’re running this sh1tshow.
Remember we were all told we’d be better off
Now we’re told - there will be food.
Marvellous.

Firecracker123 Mon 02-Sep-19 07:59:32

It will count as a win to me when we leave on the 31st October 2019 and the 17.4 million who voted leave.

Urmstongran Mon 02-Sep-19 08:10:28

60 days till 31 October.

Greta8 Mon 02-Sep-19 08:16:01

I'm just off to watch my new baby grandson being weighed. I hope he will have a good future in this country, but I am not hopeful as things stand at present. Scary times, when opinions are so polarised. I voted Remain and I stand by that decision. Time will tell how it plays out - leavers will need to have more sophisticated arguments in their repertoire - 'it's the will of the people' and 'leave means leave' won't cut it in a few months time when we start reaping the whirlwind.

crystaltipps Mon 02-Sep-19 08:37:42

Well some of those 17.4 m are no longer with us.

Firecracker123 Mon 02-Sep-19 08:41:53

Nitpicking.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 02-Sep-19 08:53:23

Government websites are showing “UK is leaving the EU on 31st October 2019”. on their homepages.

Looks like it’s finally going to happen.

varian Mon 02-Sep-19 08:57:07

Government websites promote government policy. They are not able to predict the future. What you have spotted is just a tiny part of the pro- brexit propaganda campaign which is costing £100.000.000 of our money.

Grandad1943 Mon 02-Sep-19 09:00:03

Perhaps those that view Britain crashing out of the EU with no deal on the 31st October as a win should read the below link.

Again this report is based on government documents in regard to how Dover and the Channel Tunnel will become chaotic in the event of no-deal. It should be remembered that it will be your food standing in those trucks.

Think on it, before talking of wins.

Report begins here:-
news.sky.com/story/brexit-crisis-govt-analysis-suggests-chaos-at-dover-in-event-of-no-deal-departure-11800263

WadesNan Mon 02-Sep-19 09:04:04

Government websites cannot predict the future - but it appears that remain posters on GN can!

Grandad1943 Mon 02-Sep-19 09:10:49

WadesNan, the above report on no-deal chaos at Dover and the Channel Tunnel is taken from Government Documents. However, that report is just another they will not wish to point out in their propaganda campaign.

No need for remain supporters to predict anything in this case, as the governments own documents do that for them.

varian Mon 02-Sep-19 09:13:29

I have not seen an example of Remain posters predicting the future but there have been numerous examples of leavers telling us categorically "we will leave on 29th March" or another date, and now "we will leave on 31st October"

I prefer to hope that the brexit nonsense can be stopped but we'll have to wait and see.

MaizieD Mon 02-Sep-19 09:24:45

Strange that, isn't it, WadesNan? Remainers aren't allowed to suggest what might happen in the future, based on what experts in the field think, but Leavers were able to say with absolute certainty that the EU would turn into a United States of Europe (run by Germany, of course), that the EU oing to fall apart (odd, in view of the previous statement), that the UK was going to be overrun with refugees or EU immigrants (or both), that their grandchldren were going to be conscripted into an EU army (under the command of Germany, of course) and that Turkey was about to join the EU and 3 million Turks were poised to invade the UK as soon as the deal was done.

But none of that is predicting the unknown future, is it?

If only Leavers could recognise the irony implicit in their idiotic mantra...

crystaltipps Mon 02-Sep-19 09:28:42

It’s not nitpicking to state that thousands of the 17.4 m ( out of 66 m population) will now be dead and replaced by younger voters. My MiL now 99 and away with the fairies won’t be voting again and she shouldn’t have voted last time as she couldn’t tell you who the prime minister was let alone what the EU is, apart from hating Nigerians.

growstuff Mon 02-Sep-19 10:17:53

You said it lemongrove

Why should the losing side in the referendum win...it would be nonsensical.

It certainly would be nonsensical for the losing side to win, which is why it won't.

Apart from a handful of very wealthy people, the whole country is the loser and it can't win.

That's why Leavers need to stop their childish win/lose mentality (it's not a football game ffs) and start thinking about the country, which they claim to love.

Urmstongran Mon 02-Sep-19 11:14:57

I’m getting sick of it all now. The debates, the hypotheses, the lies (both sides), the petitions, the marches.

I’m hoping we Leave on 31 October (with a decent deal, not Teresa May & Ollie Robbins capitulation), or even Leave with No Deal if we have to.

I don’t want a further extension (horror ?).

Nor another bluddy referendum.

I’d even be prepared to Revoke it all now, I’m that fed up of it.

varian Mon 02-Sep-19 11:31:41

I'm sure there are many folk who think like you UG . In fact my guess is that most UK voters are fed up of brexit.

If we leave it will not be over. The rest of our lives will be blighted by on-going trade negotiations and arguments about blame.

The only way to make it actually stop is, as you suggest, to Revoke Article 50, so let's hope that happens soon.