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NO DEAL is the only way. The EU 'wrote' the WA Agreement.

(306 Posts)
Day6 Sun 01-Sept-19 17:11:59

and it ties us to the EU indefinitely.

The Irish backstop could be the least of our worries.

May's WA must be rejected completely. It is an incredibly complicated document leaving hardly a subject not covered, and everything in it has been designed to be beneficial to the EU.

I doubt if any MP has read it from cover to cover. Nearly every paragraph is cross-referenced to a Treaty, Regulation or Directive, and each one has to be looked up, read and understood before moving on. It takes hours.

So says John Ashworth in his article This EU-written Withdrawal Agreement is toxic from start to finish

www.conservativewoman.co.uk/this-eu-written-withdrawal-agreement-is-toxic-from-start-to-finish/

It is a very revealing article, written by someone who has made an effort to link the words to the many treaties, acts and sub-paragraphs which determine the UK's role after a decidedly dodgy exit (or non-exit as it transpires) from the EU.

It is very worrying.

He concludes

During any transition period, we would not be classified as a ‘third country’, so although technically one could claim that we had left the EU, in practical terms, we *wouldn’t have done so – rather the opposite*

We would effectively be controlled by the EU to such a degree that we might just as well shut our Parliament down

We would finally become a ‘third country’ on 1 January 2023, as it is doubtful that the EU would consider an extension other than on the previous transition terms, which would essentially mean that we would still not have left the EU in any meaningful way

We would still be paying our ongoing fees, at full rate, to the EU. The EU would still control our fisheries and our armed forces and we would still be subject to the European Court of Justice, with our Parliament still essentially sidelined. No one in their right minds could want us to be in such a situation

We do not want Brexit in name only (BRINO) which is what the WA will give us, if our only request is the dropping of the backstop.

Boris, must be careful. May's WA is a non-starter. Farage, in waiting, understands that the WA has to be rejected - in full.

Davidhs Wed 04-Sept-19 20:02:54

Day6 . Every country that trades with the EU has an an agreement and if we leave without a deal we will have to have a trade agreement as well as other alliances in common, defense, human rights, environmental issues and many more.
The U.K. does not and never will exist in isolation and if we want to trade with the EU we will have to accept their rules, they are not going to accept goods that don’t comply with their regulations and vice versa.
Norway and Switzerland and others are EFTA members each with slightly differing agreements, politically they are separate, but for trade they are very closely aligned and the EU does regulate EFTA strictly. All EFTA members pay for access to the single market, they are not compelled to, they do it because it is in their economic interest to do so.
We are going to continue to trade with the EU and the trade terms we are going to get are going to be comparable with EFTA members and extra tariffs are going to be imposed if we are not members.

It’s the EU that is running the show, we can seek trade and alliances in far off lands, if we want to trade with the EU it is going to be on their terms, when will the leavers realize there is no dream ticket, just a whole lot of uncertainties

lemongrove Wed 04-Sept-19 18:15:51

Perfectly at liberty to rigorously pursue a deal?!
Really?
If no deal is off the table he can’t rigorously pursue anything.
Why would the EU now offer anything better than the WA that T May got and which was turned down three times in the HOC? What’s in it for them?
If they really thought we would simply leave at the end of October then they may have really thought about upping the deal, but as it is, why would they?
The HOC doesn’t want to leave the EU so is doing everything it can to screw up a democratic vote to leave which they in Parliament had agreed would happen.
As gillybob said this morning, why can’t they be honest and say so?
Because none of them are honest, and that includes Soames and Clarke.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 04-Sept-19 16:41:37

Johnson is perfectly at liberty to rigorously Pursue a deal, which whatever happens he will have to do anyway.

It is hum bug to suggest otherwise.

All this does is to ensure the poor are protected, the seriously ill protected, jobs protected, businesses protected.

Whats not to agree with this.

It is entirely up to that shambolic racist to get a deal.

I wouldn’t hold your breath.

Day6 Wed 04-Sept-19 16:28:39

Huge sigh.

So, Corbyn (the all-new Eurosceptic-turned-Remainer Corbyn, Mk2, the hyocprite-enhanced turbo charged Marxist model ) and co have decided we can wait even longer for a deal.

In three months nothing will happen. The EU delivered an ultimatum months ago. Take it or leave it.

What will happen is Remainer MPs will vote to accept the current one, the dreadful, EU-beneficial one that took almost three years of futile negotiating to draw up.

The agreement on the table right now, which most of us hoped had been consigned to the dustbin will be resurrected.

If we accept the withdrawal agreement, we basically remain in the EU because they will continue to pull all the strings. It will be BRINO (Brexit in name only.)

Remainers are crowing. Parliament is a disgrace and friends with businesses are furious this morning that the opposition has voted for yet more waste-of-time, political point-scoring delays.

Bring on the GE. The Brexit Party could stand alone, without the Conservatives given the mood of the country right now.

If the disgraceful withdrawal agreement is our way out of the EU, when No Deal is taken off the table, so giving away our negotiating power - as May did - our politicians can hang their heads in shame for selling the UK down the river.

varian Tue 03-Sept-19 18:39:42

At last

Nandalot Tue 03-Sept-19 18:27:44

Interests, nothing to do with May.

Nandalot Tue 03-Sept-19 18:27:08

Not hypocrisy, Joelsnan, just putting the in,Teresa’s of the country to the forefront rather than personal ambition.

varian Tue 03-Sept-19 18:23:26

Tony Blair has warned him about BJ's "elephant trap" and it seems he has paid attention.

Joelsnan Tue 03-Sept-19 18:21:15

Corbyn looks to be redeeming himself, at least to some extent, by saying he will not vote for a general election until a no deal brexit has been decisively and securely been removed from the table.

Oh, the hypocrisy. He has been calling for an immediate election on a daily basis!

varian Tue 03-Sept-19 18:18:39

Corbyn looks to be redeeming himself, at least to some extent, by saying he will not vote for a general election until a no deal brexit has been decisively and securely been removed from the table.

Day6 Tue 03-Sept-19 17:41:59

I think he is universally despised by anyone not in or supporting the Labour Party. They lost the last election with Jezza at the helm, didn't they?

His history of supporting the UK's enemies makes him a non-starter in my book, and is made worse by his total U turn on the EU.

Who up until a few months ago,

A )vociferously denounced and despised the EU for the decades he has been an MP?

B) Who then sat on the fence as Labour leader regarding EU issues, not revealing his true feelings or guiding the party to Leave, or indeed in any direction at all. Labour were rudderless under pathetic Corbyn and the party split.

C) Who recently decided he would support Remain (because he could smell unrest ) also support a second referendum, and in doing so betray so many Labour supporters?

He really is a weasel. (Hang on, that's not fair on weasels. Sorry weasels. They could probably run a political party better than he could.)

Corbyn is motivated by power to break Britain alongside his Marxist allies within the now hard-left Labour Party.

Lessismore Tue 03-Sept-19 17:36:01

I had no idea about the Irish Border issue before the vote is should have been explained and made public.

Really, no idea?

GrannyGravy13 Tue 03-Sept-19 17:25:39

Until he could be in touching distance to the keys of No.10.......then the UK will be totally “screwed”

Day6 Tue 03-Sept-19 17:24:47

Exactly lemon.

I am one of life's floating voters, always have been, but I could march with socialists against the EU. Many left wingers despise it.

Day6 Tue 03-Sept-19 17:22:55

There is vast poverty and unemployment in so many member states too.

You ask the people on the streets if their lives are made better by being in EU controlled countries and they are likely to tell you their lives couldn't get much worse. Many young people in EU member states don't see a future for themselves.

lemongrove Tue 03-Sept-19 17:22:45

Of course Day6 .....which is why Corbyn has railed against the EU all his political life!

Day6 Tue 03-Sept-19 17:20:59

and was run from the beginning by forces of the Far Right who want a state free of control so that they can rip off the rest of us

Honestly, that is beginning to sound like paranoia. I hope you are OK.

My take and that of many Unionists and left wingers is the EU fans the flames of austerity, is a dream scenario for capitalism and affects wages throughout the continent, keeping them low, so bosses make huge profits.

THAT sounds very nasty to me. I am so surprised you support that.

pinkquartz Tue 03-Sept-19 17:20:24

I had no idea about the Irish Border issue before the vote is should have been explained and made public.

A local TV prog last night showed how fish are still being chucked back into the sea. After being caught, over the quota, now dead.
All good food
One of the reasons why i hate the EU........there are hungry people and the fishermen have to throw the good fish back dead. Makes no sense.

Joelsnan Tue 03-Sept-19 17:16:39

People!

Joelsnan Tue 03-Sept-19 17:16:10

I think some people’s should start calling EU ‘Eutopia’ as the have such a rose tinted perception of the union.

Day6 Tue 03-Sept-19 17:16:08

when actually, as with most people you are, I suspect, a Daily Mail or Telegraph or Express reader

Oh dear notentirelyallhere I suspect your user name suits you given you attack with such cheap jibes.

I am not offended to be called any of those things, just as you probably don't mind being referred to as an hysterical referendum loser who scours every pro-EU publication supporting her point of view.

You see, it works both ways.

The Telegraph isn't a bad paper actually. There are lots of interesting articles in it written by guest journos.

How about you address the post and not the poster? That's how grown up discourse works, and we can both move on?

lemongrove Tue 03-Sept-19 17:15:19

‘As with most people, you are I suspect a Daily Mail or Telegraph or Express reader’ ( you write to Day6)
What personal nonsense you write notentirelyall here !

Lessismore Tue 03-Sept-19 17:14:48

notentirelyallthere, I think you may infact be totallyallthere.

lemongrove Tue 03-Sept-19 17:10:25

‘Our mean morbid little state’ ??

Which country are you moving to?

notentirelyallhere Tue 03-Sept-19 17:02:18

Day6 we have been a member of a trading block, the EU, for the last 40 odd years, how on earth do you think it is possible to extract ourselves in some kind of clean sweep? Especially when the world has changed out of all recognition and international trade agreements take years to negotiate.

Anyone would think you are an MEP, a member of the Cabinet, in the Labour and Tory party executives and a member of the Secret Service to boot, when actually, as with most people you are, I suspect, a Daily Mail or Telegraph or Express reader.

What is sinister about 'Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed'? This is a renegotiation of 40 years of trade and economic affairs for heaven's sake. Brussels wanting to control and have a say in our future movements??? I think they'll be glad to get rid of us, from Cameron's days onwards, the UK has been a pain in the butt to the rest of the EU. Once we've gone, they'll happily get on with allocating money to areas which need it, like Wales and Cornwall and Liverpool and Northern Ireland, all of which have benefited enormously from the EU, they'll continue to pass laws which protect the consumer, which opt for best farming practices, they'll continue to harmonise security forces information across Europe so as to protect member states from fraud and widescale corruption, they'll facilitate collaboration in scientific research across member states......and so on.

Meanwhile, our mean, morbid little State will be in the pocket of Trump with his chlorinated chicken and cheap food and minus a decent health service because our government has wasted time and money pretending a narrowly won referendum was a) democratic and b) unchallengeable and c) an innocent poll about the EU when actually it was about the Tory Party unable to stop having nights of the long knives and was run from the beginning by forces of the Far Right who want a state free of control so that they can rip off the rest of us. Sheesh, I'm off to have a double G and T.