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How right we were

(186 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Thu 05-Sept-19 08:08:17

I expect everyone can remember our posts during the Tory leadership elections and the extinctive knowledge that Johnson would be a disaster as leader.

How right we were.

Johnson is treating this great office of state as an entitlement rather than a huge responsibility. His reputation for laziness and ill preparedness means that his mentor Cummings can take total control and rule with an iron fist.

On Tuesday his performance was an absolute car crash. His incoherent argument was bumbled out resulting in his first voting lose, and his assurance that his majority of 1 dropped to -24 (I think, tbh I’ve lost count)

On Wednesday at PMQs- his backbencher must have sat more in hope than expectation and they weren’t disappointed. Within minutes of his standing it was clear that they were heading for another disaster. Instead of measured thoughtful replies, what we got was a show of excruciating narcissistic ego.

What he achieved was what many thought in the Tory party was impossible.

He made Corbyn look like a statesman.

However he totally lost the house once Dhesi stood up and asked him to apologise for his racist Islamophobic comments.
Johnson arrogance means however, that he is incapable of saying sorry - ever. So all the house got was a bumbling load of piffle

He couldn’t wait to scurry off back to his leave campaigners in number 10. He is safe there playing his fantasy war games with Cummings.

He came back later for even further humiliation. He lost the commons timetable and couldn’t even persuade them to decide to boot him out to run an election.

3 votes carried out 3 lost. 100% failure.

Ladies our instincts were so right.

maddyone Sun 08-Sept-19 17:20:25

Who are you directing the question to Labaik? Or it is a general question?

jura2 Sun 08-Sept-19 17:24:14

The scenes in London today were appalling - the thugs have taken to the streets- in the name of Tony Robinson and Brexit - nazi salutes, swastikas, beating up police and anyone standing in their way. Sheer threats and intimidation - and threatening the peaceful demonstrations planned for the 19th.
Previous remain demos included elderly and handicapped people, families with children of all ages, all in a peaceful, joyful and often humoristic manner.

Labaik Sun 08-Sept-19 17:26:25

maddyone; you were the one commenting on the nasty comments about withholding medicine from leave voters so I'm asking you....

Labaik Sun 08-Sept-19 17:27:54

jura; not of the lovely people who voted leave had any intention of causing this and now don't hold themselves responsible for it in any way. It's all our fault...

maddyone Sun 08-Sept-19 17:37:46

Okay Labaik, of course I understand that people/parents will be very worried about the supply of essential medicines.

Perhaps you can answer my question, do you think it’s acceptable for someone to say that leave voters should be denied essential medication?

Some parents of insulin dependent children will have voted leave, others will have voted remain. Are you suggesting that the children of leave voters be denied their medications?

jura2 Sun 08-Sept-19 17:39:32

www.facebook.com/TeganBitesBack/videos/511005293022289/

will Leavers stand by them, or make a stand and say 'not in our name' ?

Just spoken to DD1 on Skype - she has begged me not to go to march on 19th- and has discussed this with DD2. OH agrees with them - they are all so concerned about the thugs from EDL and BF- hiding behind Ukip, Tony Robinson, Farage and Brexit party.

maddyone Sun 08-Sept-19 17:39:51

Tony Robinson and his supporters do not represent the vast majority of leave voters. They do not represent my 91 year old mother.
To suggest it is so is disingenuous in the extreme.

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 17:41:47

I really do disagree with you maddyone about the comparisons with pre-war Germany. OK, so I speak German and have studied original documents and I have a passion for history, especially social history. I accept that not everybody has studied 1930s Germany in the depth I have. (Sorry if that sounds like bragging - it's a statement of fact).

Germany in the 1920s was an educated, cultured country. It was beginning to recover from WW1, but it had a fragile democracy and economy. Jews were reasonably well integrated and were treated better than in many other European countries. There were numerous cases of intermarriage and many Jews no longer believed in Judaism, but were secular.

I've read numerous newspaper articles, diaries and letters written in early 1930s Germany. Some people were worried (increasingly so), especially minorities, which is why some people emigrated if they could. However, people really didn't see what was coming. They voted for the Nazis because they were promising a land of milk and honey to people who had lived through WW1 and the late 1920s depression. Jews, socialists, gays, Slavs, the disabled and unemployed were demonised and gradually people began to believe the media. Laws were changed to enable the government to have its way. There were so many parallels with what's happening now that it really is frightening.

It took Germany years to recover morally from WW2. There was an overwhelming sense of guilt because people finally realised that they had enabled the holocaust by not standing up sooner and being swayed by short term gains (radios, better roads, affordable cars, jobs).

I hope to goodness that nothing really awful happens. The UK has a stronger democracy and more robust constitutional laws than Germany had in the early 1930s, which is precisely why we must never let anybody attack them.

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 17:42:32

Lecture/rant over, but I really feel very strongly about it. wink

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 17:43:32

Tony Robinson?? I think you mean Tommy. Tony is a little chap who digs up people's fields.

jura2 Sun 08-Sept-19 17:44:13

Maddyone : 'Tony Robinson and his supporters do not represent the vast majority of leave voters. They do not represent my 91 year old mother.
To suggest it is so is disingenuous in the extreme.'

then they have to come out and very clearly say so- and not let them to the dirty work.

jura2 Sun 08-Sept-19 17:45:07

growstuff- it is not his real name anyhow- so ?!?

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 17:46:52

No, they probably don't represent her, but they are enforcers and UKIP and the rest are very happy to let them have their way.

Sorry to return to Nazi Germany, but Hitler used the SA to do his dirty work before purging them too.

growstuff Sun 08-Sept-19 17:49:04

smile @ jura. I know, but the thought of Tony Robinson (who is a Labour supporter) and seems pretty harmless, being associated with those oafs was a bit much.

jura2 Sun 08-Sept-19 17:50:58

totally agree- and apologies to Tony, and you.

jura2 Sun 08-Sept-19 17:56:18

So, will the Leavers on GN clearly and unequivocally say about these thugs 'NOT in my name' - or will they hide behind the fascist violence?

maddyone Sun 08-Sept-19 17:59:41

Sorry about the name growstuff, I don’t really follow the man, I don’t like him. Just got the names mixed up.

maddyone Sun 08-Sept-19 18:01:29

Well I didn’t vote leave Jura, but in any case, he and his followers are not doing anything in my name. Can’t speak for others, but I guess they’ll feel the same. Including you.

Pantglas1 Sun 08-Sept-19 18:02:54

But you’re the one jura2 who would put anyone who voted leave at the back of the queue for medicine/treatment? And who would be next? Everyone else who didn’t vote the same as winners in a general election?

maddyone Sun 08-Sept-19 18:04:30

Growstuff, I have read widely around the subject of Nazi Germany and I have also read many, many personal memoirs. I don’t think there is a comparison, apart from a few strange people like Tommy Robinson. We will have to agree to disagree.

Labaik Sun 08-Sept-19 19:10:23

Well, my daughter has been a history teacher for 20 years and studied the Weimar Republic extensively and she's been saying for three years that the parallels are terrifying. But she obviously doesn't know as much as you.

varian Sun 08-Sept-19 19:23:20

The ordinary German voters in the early 1930s had absolutely no idea of what was to come if they voted for Hitler.

They were decent civilised people and not more antisemitic than other European nations, but a populist politician with a power of oratory talking about the "will of the people" somehow managed to gain power, and the rest, as we all know now, is history.

jura2 Sun 08-Sept-19 19:41:22

Labaik, my mother was studying German in Munich in 1932 - and the stories she told me are so similar to what is happening now.

Unless Leavers say firmly 'these thugs do not speak or act for me - they have to take part responsibility.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 08-Sept-19 19:58:16

Someone else defying the law. Whatever people voted they must surely not support this. I can’t understand how he got a secure pass with his record of contempt etc.

Shahmir Sanni
@shahmiruk

A man that has been held in contempt of Parliament earlier this year is walking around Parliament today. And he’s still under investigation by the National Crime Agency. If I were an MP I would’ve ordered security to have him immediately removed.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 08-Sept-19 19:58:41

Cummings btw that is