Do we understand what a “No Deal” actually means ?

MaizieD you can’t possibly remember me saying that ( unless it was a spoof thread) !
DD1 was born in the mid seventies.?

Are you a lawyer Joelsnan?

What about citizens' rights and the Irish border? Any answers?

I really don't understand your point about the countries which have relocated. They're not all EUcentric. As for science and pharma, I'm afraid you are totally and utterly wrong. UK researchers started losing funding as soon as the referendum was announced. Contracts tend to be issued on three year programmes and people weren't prepared to lend UK research companies billions, if the UK was leaving the UK.

I don't understand your point about Erasmus either. It's stopping for UK citizens in 2020 but continuing for everybody else.

So how long do you think it will take to renegotiate trade deals to recoup the potential loss of £83bn a year?

By the way, had you noticed that the UK doesn't have an empire any more?

I was about four when it ended.

That's odd, lemon. I distinctly remember you telling us you were born in the 1970s. 1974 wasn't it?

I was 4 when rationing ended. Born 1950.

Growstuff
An interim free trade agreement can be formulated however both parties wish it to be. If so wished there could be no trading or logistics impact, but of course the EU wouldn’t agree for reasons mentioned before.
Many organisations relocating are EUcentric organisations and yes it may be an issue with them relocating, however with regard to science education and other cooperative initiatives. I have noted that in most instances (including Erasmus), non EU countries contribute to and take advantage of these initiatives.
Much of UK wealth is derived from non visible service provision and this is traded worldwide and to some extent this is why UK manufacturing was wound down (without any acknowledgement of the social impact if its loss) or often outsourced to cheap Eastern Europe with little or no outcry of ‘foul’ during this time.
Brits have always travelled, worked and settled throughout the world and Especially in Europe, and the same has been the case for our global family who have (for centuries) travelled, worked and settled in the UK.

I was surprised to find out that I could buy my prescription medication over the counter in Spain, very cheaply, when I was on holiday in May. I had been pricing it online in case of Brexit shortages and it was very expensive there.
So if anyone is going abroad soon, pop into the local pharmacy and stock up on your essential medication.

Fennel remembers war shortages ( and Realgranddad )
And also pre war.
That makes a person 85 or over to actually remember them well.
Rationing after the war was much reduced and better, and
I was about four when it ended.

www.facebook.com/thedailymash/videos/382142449145644/

love this Leicester lass - brilliant

Indeed Sparklefizz. Apparently, I was issued with a ration book, but I was born after rationing ended, so it was never used.

Joelsnan At that stage we would be in the same position of any other country who wants to agree a trading agreement with the EU, except we would be in a more advanced position to finalisation as we would be in compliance with just about all of the policy and legal requirements for the trade deal with having just left.
How did you reach this conclusion? We would in fact have all our trade deals with other countries including Cananda etc made null and void because they are EU trade deals. We would then have to start from scratch. The shortest time any trade deal has taken to process is about 2 years. Whilst we were negotiating there would of course be other members of the EU who would seek to supply some of the things we would be unable to. It would be a disaster for Britain.

Food rationing carried on in Britain until the 1950s. I can remember Mum's ration book when I was a small child and I am in my early 70s.

4 July 1954
Fourteen years of food rationing in Britain ended at midnight on 4 July 1954, when restrictions on the sale and purchase of meat and bacon were lifted. This happened nine years after the end of the war.
Rationing in Britain during World War 2

But the facts remain, whatever one likes to call them.

Immediate issues are citizens’ rights, the £39bn Brexit divorce bill, and the Northern Ireland border.

We can trade on WTO terms until trade agreements are reached, but this will have significant effects on the logistics of physical trade and a loss of income from trading in services. Prices will inevitably affected - that's not Project Fear.

I agree Joelsnan that no deal has always been wrongly labelled.The same for ‘cliff edge’ and any other colourful phrases.

PS. Varian's link is from the House of Common's library, not some rabid remainer website.

You are right Joelsnan but the Withdrawal Agreement covers citizens’ rights, the £39bn Brexit divorce bill, and the Northern Ireland border. If the UK leaves with no Withdrawal Agreement, there are still many unresolved issues.

In the article which varian linked, it appears that a trade agreement isn't quite so simple as you imply, especially with regard to services. The UK has a £83 billion pa surplus in trading services with the EU and it would be foolish not to come to an agreement. If we don't, the UK's trade balance will take a huge hit. Johnson's "bumps in the road" could last quite some time. Meanwhile, of course, some of the providers of services (finance, legal, accounting, advertising, research and development, architectural, engineering and other professional and technical services) will relocate to other EU countries, as some already have in anticipation of Brexit.

Fennel and Elegran I didn’t realise we had so many GNers in their mid eighties or more, so Realgranddad may not be the oldest after all.Which may please him.

for one area of NHS budget a no deal means this extra expense - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-49598590?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health&link_location=live-reporting-story
Now pause, stop thinking about money and think for a moment about how that could affects families. Not just those with children but those with adult family members that need them. More stress!

What about Ireland?

No deal is a misnoma
If we leave on 31st this will probably be without agreeing the terms of leaving i.e. the Withdrawal Agreement.
At that stage we would be in the same position of any other country who wants to agree a trading agreement with the EU, except we would be in a more advanced position to finalisation as we would be in compliance with just about all of the policy and legal requirements for the trade deal with having just left.
Theoretically the withdrawal agreement could have been finalised once we had left as it relates to payments for pension contributions and ongoing contracts (and yes borders) however, because this would identify an easy way out for other restless members and potential derail of the gravy train, it was considered unacceptable.
Apparently No actual trade deal talks can take place until UK finally leaves, and, again, theoretically if both sides agreed an immediate free trade agreement could come into play as per WTO rules until a final formal deal was agreed, but again this would be too easy and could lead to the collapse of the union as it stands. Therefore the hysteria around the 31/10/19 ‘deal’ seems a bit disingenuous, unless you are swept along by proletariat spin.

There is no 'deal'
'They' are working on a withdrawal treaty

Brexit: Bill intended to block no deal to become law after being passed by House of Lords

www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/06/brexit-boris-johnson-news-latest-eu-labour-confirms-it-will-not-vote-on-monday-night-for-early-election-live-newsbior

Fennel I remember shopping with my mother, and queueing at several shops for each item, only to be told that they had sold out. I remember the rumours that went round "XXXX has sugar!!" and the rush to get to XXXX's shop to be near the front of the queue. She used to shop for elderly neighbours, so we would have their necessities to queue for too.

Reasons have been given , but they have been either not read or not understood. Potential shortages of some foods, for instance, could happen because without trade agreements on imports from the countries of origin of those foods, there would be paperwork to be checked at the places where they entered the UK. Checking paperwork needs a human eye, a human intelligence, and a certain amount of time.

While one consignment of food was being checked through customs, the lorry behind it would have to wait its turn, so would the lorries behind that - whether their contents came from an EU country, one on the European continent that wasn't in the EU, a container ship from the Far East or one from the US or South America. Many, many consignments arrive at our ports and airports every day! It could take hours - days? - for transport to clear the queue. Some produce can't be held up like that without going off.

The paperwork on imported goods, whether food or not, could include a bill for customs duty. That would be added to the price, resulting in higher prices.

The other things that could and very likely would follow our leaving the EU trade agreements have similar explanations. It is not rocket science to work out the mechanisms which could cause delays, inconveniences, costs and shortages. When they happen, those affected will blame "the government" for them and for not passing legislation to stop them happening!

Lemon - I remember war shortages. and prewar.
Realgrandad you need to add to your statement the reasons WHY these problems will occur. Many people in the UK think it's scaremongering because reasons haven't been given.

We are getting the best deal we ever could as a member of the EU, in fact a better deal than any other EU country, yet some people in the UK still want to leave, even though the hollow undeliverable promises made by the lying leave campaigners have now been revealed.

Realgranddad You must be the oldest member of GN so far to remember war shortages.
There wasn’t a vote to get a deal or not on the ballot paper, it was Leave or Remain, but even so, the general public thought there would be much negotiating but by March 29th we would leave with some sort of WA and then go on to do deals.
Our MPs had other ideas it would seem, and they refused the deal three times.Now they refuse to have no deal.
We are in a stalemate situation.
Why should the EU do anything more? I can’t blame them, they are getting the best deal they can, pity our politicians didn’t do the same.