The yellowhammer documents

Many small towns were declining for many years before the referendum.

And that answers my question how...?

If anything, given that you own a "sales" company (completely off topic and genuinely curious - why the random quotes?!) you'll have a much better handle on the issue than the average Josephine Bloggs.

lemongrove I am off for a nice latte and a freshly baked madeleine.

It’s rumoured that when Johnson read Blackswan - the real worst case scenario - he vomited. I think things might be getting a bit too hot for him.

I don’t think there’s any point in explaining your point of view GG13 as the posters here just seem to want a good old rant, whatever’s is said.I have noticed the comments becoming ever more personal and snarly as time goes on, and reason goes out of the window.
May as well leave them to their echo chamber.

SirChenjin see my post of 13.33.50.

You've no idea how trading with third countries on WTO terms or even any deal will benefit the UK, have you Granny. I suspect it didn't even enter your heard to consider that aspect of Brexit.

growstuff. I said no such thing, your interpretation of my post is totally wrong!!

I said I was not an "expert". Governments and Companies employ experts in the appropriate field.

My husband and I have owned a "sales" company for over 38 years. We import from Europe and elsewhere.

What could Parliament have done differently?

How would you solve the issues in Ireland?

It was always an impossible task. I could never understand why May was so keen to take it on because it was obvious from the beginning that the Brexit people wanted could never be delivered. May is now a scapegoat for the inevitable.

Did I ever claim to be lemongrove? Really?

GrannyGravy has just admitted what many people have said all along, namely that people (and that's most of us) should never have been given a vote on something so complex and important.

How can somebody make claims about international trade then admit she doesn't know what she's talking about? Baffling!

No secret on how I voted GillT57, I had decided to vote remain until I found out that all five of our children and their partners were voting leave.

I done my own research on the workings of the EU, listened to ACs reasons and voted leave, as those who voted remain often post it is our AC and GCs future not mine so much.

Are you an expert in international trade then growstuff?
I think not.
What all should have done before the vote is to listen, read and give the matter some thought before voting.No doubt many did, and many didn’t, again on all sides.
We leave negotiating details to the government of the day, and the civil servants ( you don’t keep a dog and bark yourself, after all.)
Because Parliament has handled it poorly is no fault of the populace, and it’s high time all the blame and bile on social media realised that and wound their collective necks in!

Great - so you have an understanding of the issues. Based on that understanding, what's your opinion on how trading with third countries on WTO terms or even any deal will benefit the UK?

As a member of the politically illiterate elderly GG13 how did you vote? I think that the damage done will be blamed on the 'intransigent EU' Germany and France in particular to soothe the Little Englander section of the Brexit vote, the Labour party are already getting the blame in the HoC for not falling into the Johnson trap of a General Election, and a good few of the more desperate Tories are blaming the judiciary.

I posted "expert" not that I had no understanding.

You must have some opinion on it though, given it was one of the key outcomes of Brexit - when you were thinking about how you would vote, you obviously gave it some thought.

Actually, quite a few grannies and grandpas do have a good enough understanding of international trade to know of what they speak.

If you are not an expert on international trade, why do you trot out the myths from one side without considering them critically?

London and the cities voted to remain with good reason.

London is a vibrant city and will reinvent itself - as will some of the cities. They are already generally younger and more entrepreneurial than the declining small towns.

I am not an expert on international trade.

We all had one vote in the referendum, some chose one way, some the other and some just could not be bothered to get out and vote.

The Politicians are the only ones who can sort this out, not a bunch of "Grannies/Grandpas" on GN.

A London which voted to Remain, remember.

Sadly, I think you are right, SirChenjin. England will, quite literally, be smaller than it has been at any time since the Middle Ages - and considerably less influential. We will be a funny shaped blob of land as part of an island of the coast of mainland Europe. England itself will be divided between London and the cities and outlying districts.

Please explain GrannyGravy why exactly you think that an ability to trade with third countries on WTO terms or even any deal, will benefit the UK?

It will benefit individuals, such as Arron Banks, who has interests in African mines, the US, which is hanging around like a vulture for our food and healthcare market, and certain rich Russians (and some others), but ordinary folks won't see any tangible benefit.

I suspect the results of Brexit will be more gradual. People will be worse off, as prices rise and people lose their jobs. Families will be dispersed and the UK will lose its position in the world

I agree - although I would add that I don't think the UK will exist any more. For the first time in my life I believe that Scotland will be independent (and back in the EU), and I certainly wouldn't rule out a unified Ireland.

GrannyGravy If the UK is so reliant on the EU, how come we do trade with the US and China? Of course, we can trade with people outside the EU. Why do you think otherwise?

I wish mcem, but I'm not optimistic. I don't know.

Sorry to return to Nazi Germany, but I do remember seeing a "lightbulb moment". When the concentration camps were liberated, the Americans insisted on taking groups of Germans to witness what was in the camps. I've read some of the accounts by real people, who were horrified by what they saw.

I suspect the results of Brexit will be more gradual. People will be worse off, as prices rise and people lose their jobs. Families will be dispersed and the UK will lose its position in the world. That's what happens when great powers lose their influence and empires die.

Of course, the government will try to hide the effects by lying and will prop up the economy with debt, so that the majority won't accept what's going on.

By the time the results are really noticeable, many of the people who voted for it will be dead.