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Justin Trudeau

(109 Posts)
Rosina Thu 19-Sep-19 08:39:57

I have just read that Trudeau should resign because he wore some tan/black face makeup at an Arabian Nights fancy dress party around twenty years ago.

Anyone care to join me in repeatedly banging our heads against the wall?

M0nica Thu 19-Sep-19 17:39:45

Rosina I will be alongside banging my head as well.

Rosina Thu 19-Sep-19 18:21:35

At tmes this kind of over sensistivity makes me sad, because it stirs up annoyance against a particualr group. There was a lot of fuss about wearing poppies a few years back and on our local news many people of mixed race, persons 'of colour' (if I can say that without being barred forever from the internet and having to ritually disembowel myself) were asked about the supposed 'offence' and without fail they were either bemused at the suggestion or regarded it as a nonsense. One Asian man said that he understood poppies were a mark of respect for the fallen, so why should he or anybody else be offended by that? Nonetheless the bigots were out in full force shouting about 'immigrants trying to stop the nation showing respect '. This seems so often to be the end result of such hypersensitivity - which does make me wonder who really generates such doubtful news. The girl who didn't like the Morris dancers said that the more she watched it the more upset she got. Why then watch it and get upset ? Better perhaps to find out what the origins of this custom are.

Labaik Thu 19-Sep-19 19:29:31

I think everyone that has ever worn a fancy dress costume that is now regarded as not correct should put their photo on social media in support of Trudeau #imspartacus.....

jura2 Thu 19-Sep-19 20:06:26

Indeed- different world now. And we do do daft things when we are young. Our generation should be so so grateful that none of it was recorded in any way, not even photos.

He has acknowledged that with hindsight it was wrong, and has apologised.

CanadianGran Thu 19-Sep-19 20:09:13

As a Canadian, and someone who voted for the Liberal party, I cringed when I saw the photo. He was raised in the spotlight, being the son of a long time Prime Minister and celebrity mother; so even in 1990 he should have known better.

Having said that, he has promoted multiculturalism and women's rights in his cabinet since he was elected. I see this as something done in bad taste, but with no deliberate racism intended. He has apologized.

We have just started a campaign, with the vote being in November. This will indeed hurt his poll figures, especially since one of the leaders of an opposing party is a turban wearing Sikh.

Stupid indeed, but I think the Liberal party may overcome this.

Urmstongran Thu 19-Sep-19 20:12:51

Your posts are particularly helpful CanadianGran thank you, as you have more insight into the political situation over there - especially at a time of electioneering!

Chewbacca Thu 19-Sep-19 20:46:57

I remember being in a school play when I was about 8 or 9 years old. The general storyline was about how we are all, no matter what size or colour etc, the same as each other. I can quite clearly remember being dressed up in a tunic and cut off trousers, a san pan hat that had a long black pigtail stitched into the inside and which hung down my back. And my face was dusted in yellow chalk and makeup put on my eyes to make me look Chinese. The rest of my classmates were similarly dressed and made up to resemble other nationalities.

The whole aim of that school play, back in the 1950s, was to try to demonstrate why diversity is a good thing and, no matter what colour skin you have, we are all the same underneath that skin. How depressing to find out now, 60 years later, that what me and my classmates did is now considered racist and offensive. And worse yet, there are photos of us.

M0nica Thu 19-Sep-19 20:54:17

Reading the news this evening, and how he 'blacked up' not once, but several times, I found myself reaching similar conclusions to CanadianGran, and for similar same reasons.

I withdraw my previous post.

Eloethan Thu 19-Sep-19 23:02:33

Lyndiloo You say "who cares?". Well, obviously you don't care but the people who are hurt by it care and those who are bothered that they are hurt by it care too.

It is your opinion that the complaints are not legitimate. It is my opinion that they are.

While black people in the US were being oppressed by white people and subjected to segregation in every area of public life, the entertainment industry reinforced the idea that they were intellectually and morally inferior to white people by creating distorted caricatures to portray them. In the UK, the Black and White Minstrel Show presented a similarly distorted picture.

The Penguin Encyclopaedia of Popular Music states that: that:

'Minstrelsy became more overtly racist after the Civil War: the image of the 'darky' as a comic buffoon insulated whites from having to deal with the reality of free black Americans . . . Conditions were terrible for black performers . . .'

Is it any surprise, with these sorts of historical associations, black people feel insulted and threatened when they see white people "blacking up".

You blithely say that you "would not give a toss" if a black man whitened his face". But white people's historical cultural associations do not include the subjugation and brutalisation of their race by another so a black man "whiting up" would be very unlikely to induce in a white man the same discomfort, fear and anger.

Davidhs Fri 20-Sep-19 07:30:39

One mistake is forgivable but today it is reported that as a young man he repeatedly “Blacked up”. That was the 1990s and he seemed to think it was funny then, a lot of people will have the opposite view and it will probably damage him.

I do remember having gravy browning put on and being dressed as a golly for a fancy dress in the 50s, was a long time ago

MaizieD Fri 20-Sep-19 09:24:59

Having said that, he has promoted multiculturalism and women's rights in his cabinet since he was elected.

Counts for nothing?

Whitewavemark2 Fri 20-Sep-19 09:35:51

It seems to me that given the up coming election in Canada this is exactly the type of thing we will be seeing soon in this country.

Trashing the oppositions reputation is the name of the game.

We can choose to ignore it or not.

SirChenjin Fri 20-Sep-19 10:56:53

Anyone who believes that we didn't know that darking up (and singing Day O) was wrong 20 years is either lying through their teeth or hiding their racist views behind faux ignorance. He's only 3 years younger than me, and we were pretty well appraised of the connotation of blacking up back then - in fact, we've all been well appraised for a lot longer than that.

If anyone still isn't aware of the historical context then reading some of the links posted upthread and some of the excellent posts by Eloethan and others should help to educate.

EllanVannin Fri 20-Sep-19 12:53:19

The media's at fault for creating these frenzied articles to purposely get the racially motivated idiots on side.

My late husband went to sea and sailed with crews of all nationalities who many of them usually blacks used to skit at the whites and call them limey's.
To many Americans we're still classed as limey's, which includes the British people and not just sailors.
Am I bovvered ? Not at all !

Scribbles Fri 20-Sep-19 13:13:11

I try to remember that I should refer to persons "of colour" rather than "black people". I don't want to deliberately offend anyone even though the world now seems to be populated by professional offence-seekers.

But why is it okay for me, as a pale skinned northern European to be called "white"? I'm not! I'm a blend of pinkish bits and a few brown freckles. If I wasn't busy getting on with my real life, I might start to feel offended.

Yes. Just like all this focus on skin colour and how to describe it. Isn't it time everyone got past all that and concentrated on accepting each other for who we are?

SirChenjin Fri 20-Sep-19 16:38:32

With all due respect - this is not about the white people though, is it.

Alypoole Fri 20-Sep-19 16:51:03

I’m with you too, Rosina. I give up! Where are we going.......?

SirChenjin Fri 20-Sep-19 17:14:17

Hopefully to a place where all white people better understand the racist history behind black face and know why it’s unacceptable (as most of us did 20 years ago) smile

JenniferEccles Fri 20-Sep-19 17:27:10

These days there seems to be no end to the ways in which we can allegedly offend someone by our innocent actions.

It seems to me that every week we have a new rule or phrase to learn - something else we mustn't do or say in case the permanently outraged will be - well - outraged.

A while back we had 'cultural appropriation ' whereby we mustn't dare to put on a sombrero in case we offend one of Donald Trump's Mexican friends!!

Who comes up with supposed rules?

Why do we feel we have to abide by them?

Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone refused to take part in all this nonsense?

Gaunt47 Fri 20-Sep-19 17:50:24

I agree Scribbles, I'm not white either. On a form, perhaps the last census?, there was a choice of colours white brown etc. to tick, helpfully with 'other' at the bottom. So I wrote in the box 'pale pinky/grey'.

Scribbles Fri 20-Sep-19 17:52:19

JenniferE - Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone refused to take part in all this nonsense?

- yes!!

Scribbles Fri 20-Sep-19 17:56:48

G47 - I did that, too. OH was horrified and convinced the PC police would arrive at any second to take me away for corrective therapy.grin

SirChenjin Fri 20-Sep-19 17:58:34

It’s not really that hard, is it? Most people find it quite easy to understand that blacking up is not acceptable, nor is the term n*gger, paki, chinky, spaz, mong, crip and so on. If you’re not sure it’s easy enough to do a bit of research.

eazybee Fri 20-Sep-19 18:00:59

Why it is considered offensive for a person to imitate a person of another race by use of costume, make-up and wigs I really do not understand, (and please don't come on here again to tell me; I have read the previous posts).

The intention is not to ridicule or humiliate, but to emulate.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

SirChenjin Fri 20-Sep-19 18:10:05

Here’s a basic introduction to blackface and why it’s wrong. Disclaimer: other websites are available by doing a very quick google search