Climate Change Demonstrations

You won’t find it Eglantine she is looking for a kind of paradise that does not exist .

I’ve googled and googled. There’s masses of stuff on Greta but nowhere can I find what her vision of a future world actually is. How it’s going to work in practice. Is it possible?

Can somebody help me out?

janipat thank you.

M0nica your posts on this subject are so precise, informed and lacking the usual emotional responses. Thank you. Joan of Arc was indeed used, then thrown to the wolves when she was no longer needed. I hope they don't do the same to Greta, it will destroy her.

^There seems two debates going on here.
One is let’s shoot the messenger
The other is let’s listen to the message.
I know which I find more sensible^

Actually not. It depends on the messenger and it depends on the message. Anyway, where does shooting the messenger come into it?

We need to ask first what is the message? To a large extent the messenger is irrelevant, unless the messenger has been chosen deliberately to, in the words of Gilbert and Sullivan give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative. and I think this is what has happened.

I do not doubt GT's sincerity or commitment to her cause, but she could not have achieved what she has achieved without others working with her. If those working with her had been her fellow teenagers and young people. it might be acceptable, but I think she has been absorbed into a community of professional protesters who are ensuring that her youth, passion and commitment are used to their purposes.

Comparisons have been made with Joan of Arc and I think they are valid, if you look at what actually happened to Joan of Arc, as distinct from the myths and magic. She was a young woman with passion and commitment, also with some mental problems, who was taken up and used by those in power for their own ends and when she was no longer useful she was got out of the way by methods appropriate to the period.

Very few would deny the urgency and need to change our world to combat global warming. But these demonstrations are full of hot air and emotive blaming, but those whipping up the storm have put forward no practical proposals whatsoever about how to deal with the problems.

Using a young and committed teenager to seem to lead your cause, is a good way to try to wrong foot your opponent because every attack on the cause is turned into an attack on a brave noble young person with passion and commitment . It entirely begs the question as to whether the cause this child is so committed to has validity.

I’m not shooting the messenger . I think she is a very untypical 16 year old young woman being presented as an 11 year old “little sweetie” and being manipulated by CC hypocrites.

I pity her now and in the future . Her protests, speeches and followers are verging on the almost fanatical . As though she is some kind of second coming. Does she not realise that many of us are doing our very best but cannot live in this idealistic fantasy world she lives in .

Don’t shoot the messenger, listen to the message

Nobody is shooting the messenger but there's more than one way of delivering a message and there's no harm in voicing genuine concern for said messenger.

Out of the mouths of babes, ( a quote from the Bible)
She may still have a lot to learn , but so did we & still do
Don’t shoot the messenger, listen to the message.

I don't want to stifle her and I'm not criticising her personally but you only had to look at the way that ignorant oaf, Trump treated her to worry that not only is she in danger of getting out of her depth but the message will be lost in other people's attitudes and manipulation.

The higher you go the further you have to fall when people have tired of you. She has a following and whoever her advisers are should be mindful that her followers are also young and immature, not matter what they think.

By whom is she being used?
And if she is then what is being said is still true.

I’m sorry but I think she’s a puppet and being used . Poor kid .

Why would we want to stifle, criticise such passion & enthusiasm in a lovely bright young lady, no doubt she will face obstacles & broken dreams in the future as have we all .
Give the girl a fighting chance & as much support & encouragement as you can muster.

I listened to Greta last night on the news her emotion was palpable. I do think she should think about going to say India and hectoring them, as an emerging economy they are one of the worst culprits. I'm not sure she'd get anywhere but nevertheless target the countries that really need to cut their emissions.

Her mode of dress does belie her age, she looks years younger than 16, there's almost something refreshing about that though in this day of top to toe of physical artificialness.

Exactly M0nica well said ( your last paragraph) .

I am sick of trying to explain that electric cars are not built from wood and paper . They are built in factories on production lines in exactly the same way as any other car . Their Batteries are not clean energy . What happens to the car and battery when it runs out ? Technology will come but is not here yet !

Tesla is a car not an HGV. Looking at them, none of them could get a chest of drawers in the boot (our main car is always a work horse able to transport furniture, building materials, going to the tip etc).

I am always uncertain about miles per litre/range figures. How far a car can travel on a specific amount of any fuel is dependent on the load. A car and driver will go further on one litre/one battery charge, than a vehicle with four adult passengers with all their luggage, a roof box and four bikes on the back. The biggest drawback of electric cars at the present is the charging time. How much energy/emissions are expended actually manufacturing the car and battery?

I think electric cars are ideal for use in congested areas with pollution problems. The emissions associated with them are moved elsewhere, but I think hydrogen is the way forward HGVs and the heavier, longer range car market.

My DD, a scientist, involved in research. was recently researching electric car batteries. She found the energy and resulting emissions required to build each battery is the equivalent of driving a petrol fuelled car for 100,000 miles. As she pointed out, her 2006 car, which has yet to drive 100,000 miles is currently more environmentally friendly to drive than an electric car

I pity GT . She is a young woman disguised as an 11 year old girl (for effect ?) being manipulated and used in this circus of hypocrites .

We have 3 public charging points in our town centre . All of which seem to be taken up by the Nissan sponsored LA cars . Most of the houses ( like mine) are terraced so nowhere to put charging points . I am genuinely puzzled.

Also no one can tell me where all this extra (clean) electricity is going to come from ? We already import ship loads of Biomass into the Tyne from Canada which must be equally as bad ( if not worse ) for the environment .

And there you have it merlotgran! It's today's media circus which encourages this over the top behaviour. Joan of Arc, Anne Frank and other teenagers followed their convictions without blasting everything across the planet. No internet, no social media, no TV. GT is a product of our times and is being manipulated by the media machine. She has no sanctuary to which she can escape to switch off. She is still a child at 16 but a very vulnerable one no doubt receiving hate mail too. I hope she can cope with it all.

Whitewave's comment about teenagers is not far off!!

A lot of them behave as though they live every day in their own reality TV series. I'm not being unkind. I have seven DGCs and I'm very proud of them but sometimes I could shake a couple of 'em.

If kids listen to the message that's a good thing but if they only respond to overwrought emotion on the telly then that's not a good thing IMO

I don’t see electric heavy trucks as a viable option, there will be a gradual change from trucks to rail freight as it was 50 yrs ago. It will doubtless take longer but do we really need everything next day.
Electric trains delivering to local stations then distributed by electric vans, also if we are to really going to make an impact on climate change we have to consume less and travel less. Unless we all do that we are not going to make any difference.

In the future there will be much more renewable of all sorts, backed up by battery storage, nuclear, some gas and of course we will be using less - renewable does not mean cheap energy

There seems two debates going on here.

One is let’s shoot the messenger

The other is let’s listen to the message.

I know which I find more sensible

GT has every right to use the platform to express the anger and concerns that her generation have about their futures.
I am concerned that she is vulnerable in that she always seems to be alone.

I don't think using Joan of Arc as an example is that good. As I recall she was burnt at the stake , so that made a good end didn't it? Oh , and she heard voices so ,to me, that indicates that she was mentally ill.

GT has an autistic spectrum disorder. If she is typical of that condition she will have obsessions, won't see any other point of view and will have meltdowns when things are 'wrong' . As I said elsewhere I fear for her mental health if she feels she has failed or meets opposition. Her parents should be protecting her not encouraging her .

monica I think that information is out of date. Have you seen the Tesla range?

My son is getting one in the New Year.

Gonegirl A battery big enough to power a lorry, would be as big as a lorry. Even fast chargers will take 30 minutes to charge a small car. How long will it take to charge a lorry battery trailer 12 hours and how long will that charge last 3 - 4 hours.

Hydrogen is an emission free fuel. Its byproduct is water. It is, in fact a very good way of using excess electricity from windfarms and a good way of using production surges and evening supply. It is the fuel that will replace diesel in providing us with industrial traction.

This is the problem with this subject, Too few people have any idea about the science and technology behind alternative fuels, the major problems, and where the breaktthroughs could be.

Too many are very happy to make a fuss, shout and demonstrate and make ludicrous demands but none of them are prepared to make the effort, to try and really understand the problems, to focus on where there are projects that could make major contributions to providing us with clean fuel but are held up and lead a campaign that motivates ordinary people to take practical steps in reducing their own fuel consumption.