Where will they all go and live ???

Deleted due to the poster's request

Posted to soon!

As he had lived outside the EU for more than 15y he wasn’t entitled to a vote in the referendum. He would have voted Remain (understandably!)

Hi jura the friend I mentioned who has costed his diabetic meds in Spain in case he needs to fund them himself?

Just to clarify, he retired out there 23y ago, lock stock & barrel with his wife. They took up residency there and pay their taxes to Spain, of course.

He is upset about Brexit and any ramifications for his healthcare provision.

Eva2 'What's wrong with buying a private health insurance. The rest of the world does.'

except that in many countries, large numbers cannot afford to, and are just not covered.

And when you move to a country where this is NOT the case, and you are older, have pre-exisiting conditions or any kind of long term illness or disability - private insurance will just not be available or be prohibitively expensive, and often will not cover the above.

In Switzerland, it is compulsory, by Law and checked, to have both sickness and accident insurance. When you go to a doctor the first time, a chemist, or a hospital - a clerk witll see you first, and request to see the evidence of your insurance and register it all officially- before any treatment is given. Basic inurance, as said about £450/500 per person per month, cannot refuse any pre-exisiting conditions- you can then take extra insurance on top for private care, etc- these will be hugely expensive and pre-exisiting conditions normally not accepted. . Those on Social Benefits or low wages, get a subsidy or it is paid for them.

But those who made careful research before moving to EU countries to retire - would find themselves now having to spend large sums of money for health insurance they had not planned for, at the very time when the pension is being greatla devalued by poor exchange rate, and probably at a time when older age mean developing health issues.

Mamie 'As you must know, we ex Government employees (teachers, Local Government, Civil Servants, military, police etc) pay UK tax at source on our occupational pensions '

of course, I understand this- and as part of EU agreements. However, if and when the UK leaves without a Deal, it would mean that the French system will subsidise Brits in France, without getting taxes in return- so I'd say, generous indeed.

Addition to previous post - these are the current figures while we are still in the EU. I don't have the ones for TCN.
The guideline figures (applicable from 1 April 2019)
Under 65/live alone: 559,74€ per month;
Under 65/couple: 839,62€ per month;
65 or older/live alone: 868,20€ per month;
65 or older/couple: 1347,88€ per month.

Will do my best growstuff! Anyone working / running a small business in France should already be in the relevant "caisse" for paying contributions for health / pensions / unemployment. There are different "caisses" for different professions. It is a complex system and contributions are high, but the health service is very good.
In terms of residence, we have been encouraged to get a "titre de séjour" which is similar to permanent residence. This is a lengthy, bureaucratic process and varies from region to region. France loves paperwork and nothing is ever simple! We had to prove payment of taxes, health cover and sufficient revenue to live. Our cards are currently for EU citizens but will be swapped for Third Country Nationals when necessary.
I think the minimum levels of income may prove a problem for some people.

Thank you Mamie for explaining all this. I have a much better understanding of the situation now - at least, in France. I'm so g;lad the thread has got back on track after the interlude of immigrant bashing.

What is the situation for people of working age living in France, who maybe rely on investment income or self-employment?

I guess there are still some people whose incomes have been affected by the fall in sterling, have previously not had private health insurance and are going to find it difficult to sell properties, especially if they have to buy in the UK. How difficult is it to obtain residency rights (or whatever they're called) in France?

I have a friend whose mother is German and lives in Germany. His daughter also now has German nationality and lives in Germany. He will inherit a property in Germany, when his mother dies, but he isn't eligible for German nationality/residency because his father was British and he wasn't registered as a dual national. He had always intended to retire to Germany to be close to his ageing mother and because most of his family live there. Healthcare isn't the problem, but residency is apparently.

I don't understand what you mean about "those who pay tax in the UK" Jura. As you must know, we ex Government employees (teachers, Local Government, Civil Servants, military, police etc) pay UK tax at source on our occupational pensions and local (French in my case) tax on our state pension. My OH pays all his tax in France. Those are the provisions of the double taxation treaty, which is nothing to do with the EU.
It is not kindness on the part of the host nation, it is the law of the country concerned.
Eva2 it is very difficult to get private health insurance when you are older and pretty much impossible if you have a pre-existing condition.

What's wrong with buying a private health insurance. The rest of the world does.

it is massively generous of the French to continue to cover those who pay tax in UK, for sure.

Spain has also said that all those ex pats that have legal residence in Spain will keep their entitlement to Spanish health care, deal or no deal.

Solonge
I had no such problems selling my property abroad. I didn't even have to put it up for sale. The minute the word got round that it was up for sale 3 people wanted to buy it.
I see that Mamie has pointed out that you are wrong RE eu citizens in the uk verses uk citizens in the eu. That saved me the trouble. Thank you Mamie, and also for the information on the health care.

All British citizens living in an EU country are entitled to NHS care on the same basis as those who live here, provided they are in receipt of a state pension.

Jura S1 holders will go into PUMA which is the catch-all for those not in another caisse. You pay a percentage (c8%) on dividend and rental income (not UK pensions) above a plafond of (I think) about 20,000€ pa. You also continue pay the top-up insurance that we pay already. Ours is about 230€ a month for the two of us. You can enter PUMA after 3 months residence in France and because it is done through the saime caisse as the S1 it should be seamless.

and we would still have to pay about £750 per year EACH, before Insurance kicked in.

I know several who have, and several who are trying to (return). Thanks for putting me right on PUMA- I ahve to admit to not being experienced with that system. So for those retirees who previously were covered by reciprocal agreements with form S1 - where the UK government paid for the major part of health costs so far- and the many who only pay tax in the UK- the French Government, in case of No Deal, will just agree to pick up the tab? Sure?

Here in Switzerland, if they had not signed a reciprocal agreement with UK, it would have cost us a minimum of about £480, EACH, per month, to get basic cover.

I personally don't know anyone who is thinking of going back. We have all got our permanent resident cards and know what the situation is with regards to health cover. There were a lot of people who came over around 2005/5 (the Place in the Sun folk) and went back a long time ago. I don't doubt there will be people who will have to go because of the decline in the pound, but the truth is nobody knows and I seriously doubt that the numbers will be that high.
Cross-border workers may also be hit pretty hard, but will not necessarily return to the UK.
If we ever had to go back we would move to a quieter cheaper location than the south, from whence we came. The houses round here don't tend to sell to Brits anyway. We have no plans to return though.

It's always a bit of a gamble to up stakes, sell up and go and live abroad. I am sure people consider the risks to everything before they decide to emigrate.

I admire those who take that path. We considered doing it ourselves but always said we'd have a base in the UK to come back to. Our friends in France have paid into a health care scheme since they moved there (lock, stock and barrel) back in 1994. They have not once returned to the UK for medical reasons or to use the NHS.

Lots of "ifs" which might not happen, just like "if" Corbyn abolishes independent schools it will put huge pressure on the education service to find places for ALL those additional pupils.
I guess what I'm saying is we can only do what is needed at the time and until it happens just live in hope.

I think the other scary thing for returning retirees from abroad would be that over a period UK property prices have risen enormously in comparison with those in Europe so someone selling a huge house they bought 15 years ago in France with land for example would be coming back to a one bedroom flat, unless they were prepared to live in a cheaper, less appealing place. Will the returnees be prepared to accept a lesser standard of accommodation back home? I'm just curious, I don't wish them any ill.

Yes, but Jura if you read the British in Europe / RIFT information that was Matt Hancock making a general statement about what the government might do. There was no mention of what the situation would be for third country nationals according to the laws of their host country. That is what counts here.

Great news Mamie- basing my comments on the official info that reciprocal health care, via form S1, for UK retirees- will cease after 6 months.

Sorry Jura but I am going to disagree with " the vast majority will not have access to healthcare". Where is the evidence for that? Not true in France (PUMA) and from what I have read not true in Spain.
Solonge. Everything I have read says 3m EU citizens in the UK and c 1.6m Brits in the EU of which the majority are of working age.

Because of where I live (which is where I was born and bred- followed by all my adult life in UK, with British OH)... our situation is quite different. We have lost more than anyone in EU on the exchange rate- 60% so far- which is humongous- but it also means, that even if we sell at price as we bought (and that is realistic) - we would make that 60% back immediately- and as we still a flat in UK- would be able to buy a nice property.

We also have dual nationality, so not at risk at all from residents' permits, and our health care, via form S1 is now guaranteed as Switzerland has signed a reciprocal Treaty with UK.

We are lucky - our only major problem is that massive loss of income, 60%, due to the fall of Sterling, combined with the rise of Swiss Franc- and the fact it may get even worse. We also have Freedom of Movement- so could go and live anywhere in EU.

We are very lucky- the choice will be ours. But I will NOT be forced by Brexit to move back - if we ever do, it will be OUR decision, and ours alone. In the meantime, we have tightened belt, big time. We have space to grow fruit and veg, and space to have a few sheep and chickens, if need be.

The vast majority of Brits in the EU, will NOT have healhcare provision, and no guarantee they will get permission to stay. Seems like some would love to see them fail- watching them with those green eyes - sad.

But as said, if 1000s have to return destitute- it will put huge pressure on social and health services, and housing- for sure.

Petra it doesn’t work like that....and I think you are aware that is the case. Selling houses and flats in mainland EU can take years, took us five years to sell a house and our friends just short of eleven years. Rentals in the EU...are usually much cheaper. You can rent a four bed farmhouse for 800 Euros a month. Now if all these people with properties have to return to the UK....whilst they wait to sell...where will they live? Ditto if you are renting abroad with your family, you can’t afford to rent here... You know I’m sure there are more Brits living on mainland Europe than Europeans living here? Plus of course the thousands of jobs that have gone here...oh...final candle on the cake....most Brits living abroad are retired....and need a lot of medical care...the Europeans living in the UK are mostly working age....many working in the NHS....I would say we are royally f*****!