This Country has gone too far to the right

I think of politics as a large circle with a little gap at the top. The far left and right are either side of it - and remarkably similar. At the bottom we have the middle grounders but most folk are on the sides.

why have policies which were once considered fairly central left wing ideas suddenly become labelled as "Far left"?

Overton Window, trisher

Fennel: Quote: I've always admired the Nordic countries for their social care systems etc.
BUT they all have very small populations , compared with ours. eg Norway 5,5 million in 2019.
UK nearly 68 million in 2019.
You can't compare apples with oranges. End quote

I don't believe it's only a matter of population. Yes, the Nordic countries have small populations but that also means they have smaller GDPs. I feel that the Scandinavians have a different mindset. They have a strong sense of teamwork and inclusiveness. They have the lowest income inequality in the world. It was Magaret Thatcher, I think, who said that the wealth created at the top would trickle down to the poorest in society. Is that what we see in this country? Obscene sums of money are paid to some people and we should ask ourselves how it can be justified.

The Scandinavians are not more intelligent, clever etc than the Brits but I think they are more ambitious when it comes to giving everybody a decent standard of living.

Trisher I don't take issue with the LP's policy anouncements, it is the intent of the Corbyn clique that concerns me and most in the nation. Get rid of the Corbyn/ McDonnell and those who surround them and the LP would walk the next election, with them we will be like lambs being led to slaughter. Get rid of them and we can eject Johnson and his right-wing lunatics and resolve Brexit within days.

I have not forgiven my fellow left-wingers for the rise of Thatcher and all the hell she wrought. The left need to eject the anti-democratic forces from the LP and be more evolutionary in their approach to policy progams ............. remember revolutions produce nothing but bloodshed and corrupt dictators.

I rather think that incitement to revolution is coming from the right at the moment. It's the right that is egging the gullible on to hate our parliamentary democracy and the Rule of Law. They'll be ripe for storming the Bastille and the Winter Palace if this goes on for much longer.

Corbyn seems positively benign in comparison with what the right has to offer.

trisher are the policies announced generally considered that left wing? I don't think that nor do most that I come across. What they do think however is that Corbyn/McDonnell and their cronies should not under any circumstance be allowed to form the government. They equally do want the LP to be in a position to form such a government.

Based upon their reaction and the reaction on the doorstep, get rid of the current numpty leadership and the LP could romp home ............................ but not if we keep p**sing about as we are at the moment.

Are you ignoring my point, absthame?

It's all very well to talk about the possibility of a left wing revolution but why ignore the one that's being attempted right now by the right wing?

MazieD Most dictators that acheived their objectives for a period, appealed to most by appearing benign and very personable. In fact both Hitler and Stalin have often been described in such a way at the same time they planned the murder of millions. I do not suggest that LP veg leader would act quite so grossly, but that has also been said of most dictators. Why the heck should we or the LP take such a risk?

PS I don't ignore it, I have commented many times on other threads. However Corbyn, McDonnell and that merry crew are facilitating Johnson, Farage and their extreme right wing nuts by refusing to step back and nominate someone outside their clique, who would be acceptable to the most intransigent of the opposition groups and rebels, to act as a short term PM to facilitate the removal of the present government.

I am not in a position to force the LP to act in the national interest by making such arrangements. As it is the opportunity is being lost. Why if they really cared about the country do that bunch not step back and stop acting in the interest of this Tory government.

Not bothered about dear old Boris and his mates then? The ones who are actually doing their best to destroy our institutions and remake them to their liking? The ones who are bent on campaigning on a People v Parliament ticket at the next election?

Words almost fail me...

MazieD You seem to not to read what others write, only what you assume that they would write. YES I AM WORRIED ABOUT THE LUNITICS GOVERNING OUR COUNTRY (Sorry to others for shouting.)

However if the Corbyn Clique put the nations interest before their own, we would be shot of the tories, but they will not do so. In which case they are responsible for the wrath that will befall our people just as much as Johnson, Grove, Farage and the rest.

PS LUNATICS not LUNITICS Dyslexia kicking in with tiredness

Good article this morning asking about why the hard right has come out in force in the U.K.

I’ll dip in and out to give a flavour.

The BBC banned fascist rhetoric from its broadcasts with the support from all the political parties for years after Mosley.

The rationale being that Mosley’s rhetoric was too extreme, and his supporters too threatening. The ban lasted for 33 years until 1968.

A line was drawn and accepted by almost everyone, about what was or was not acceptable in right wing politics.

It is now impossible to imagine that happening today.
The line between mainstream conservatism and right wing extremism is becoming blurred, with the BBC apparently reluctant to describe Trump as a fascist and Farage , despite never having been elected as an MP constantly appearing on QT.
Tommy Robinson has been interviewed, giving legitimacy to his views.

Meanwhile Johnson and his boot-boys have adopted much of the phraseology and demagoguery or the far right.

The origins of this lie cutting a much calmer more complacent period of British politics. Fascism had faded to almost nothing.
The talk was now of Islamic radicalism and the hard left.
The was no talk of the hard right.

But their eye was firmly off the ball, and our politicians were paying little or no attention to the fascist movements growing throughout Europe.
We didn’t “do” fascism,
nothing to see here.

But both Blair and Cameron began to use the far right rhetoric in their speeches.
Phrases like “bogus asylum seekers” and other such rhetoric meant that this was taken and believed by the electorate without anything based on fact.

The BNP slowly but surely began to gain seats at a local level. In 2009 Griffiths appeared on QT to outraged reaction. But to watch him with his crude arguments and an audience who trashed his claims showed then that right wing populism was marginalised and unpopular.

We live in a different country now.

Pandora’s box has been opened and to marginalise this extreme form of populist demagoguery will not be easy.

Even if Brexit finally damages their nationalism, they will find other grievances to grow their movement.
Non-EU immigration will be the next thing, along with multiculturalism that comes with it.

We must stop giving them a platform that they use to spread their hate.

Could you give us some indication of where that article comes from please, WwMk2?

Oh sorry? I forgot to bung it at the end.

Article by Andy Beckett.
05/10 Guardian.

absthame Corbyn was elected by the party membership with a huge majority so either all of the Labour party members are being conned by a mastermind or they are all closet Marxist/Stalinists, or perhaps they have simply listened to someone who has spoken the truth for a long time. As for this "Oh I would vote for them , but I don't like him" it is a similar statement as that made by many as an excuse for voting for right wing policies. It's a way of dodging the responsibility for the present terrible conditions we see around us.
Corbyn may step down at some time in the future. I saw a statement about him recently which said if he is no longer the leader he will simply step back to be a hard working MP. And that is exactly the reason he should be PM because he hasn't sought power, he isn't doing it for some personal agrandissement, he isn't someone groomed for power and stardom, he is simply someone who believes in the party he represents and that people deserve a better country to live in.

absthame makes many good points.
If there was a ‘normal’ Labour Party Leader ( and those close to him ) they would have got into power at the last GE easily.
With him in place, they could just as easily lose the next one.
If you can’t see this, there is no hope for you.

Forgot to add, no, I don’t think this country as a whole has become very right wing at all.

At a general election the country goes to the polls not just
party members

All Labour Party leaders in recent times have been labelled by the right wing media in Britain as Marxist or communist.

The most right wing leader of the party was, without doubt, Ed Miliband, who during the 2014 General Election campaign was dubbed " Red Ed" by the tabloid press and held up to have neo-communist views.

Of course, as we witness on this forum, there are many who believe all they read in such trash publications.

Sorry to annoy you, absthame but I can't see anything in the LP leadership that leads one to the conclusion that they are plotting a Marxist/Leninist/Stalinist revolution if they come to power.

Whereas our current rightwing 'leaders' are providing a classic example of how to foment a revolution...

Corbyn may not be plotting a communist revolution, but he should accept that he is very unlikely ever to command the support of all the ex-Tories, ex-Labour, Independents, LibDems and even some in his own party.

If he has the interests of the nation at heart and really wants to prevent a no-deal brexit, he should be prepared to support a Govt of National Unity led by Margaret Beckett or Ken Clarke. (Harriet Harman has been suggested but may not want to do it as she wants to be the next Speaker.)

Corbyn's reputation would be enhanced if he was prepared to do that.

Any person can have Marxist beliefs, but it is how such people carry those views in their everyday lives that demonstrate their real integrity.

By example to the above Len McCluskey, the long-standing General Secretary of the Unite Union has never hidden the fact that he personally holds Marxist beliefs.

However, since his election as General Secretary in 2010, he has made the Unite Union through its infrastructure the most democratic Union in Britain.

McCluskey shortly after his election prevailed on the National Executive that every lay member holding any office in the organisation should stand for election or re-election every two years and that has been the situation ever since that debate.

From local branch minute secretary right up to the chairman of the National Executive Committee all have to stand for election at the end of every two year period

McCluskey himself stands for election every four years proving that holding hard left views does not mean that such persons do not believe in full democracy.

Like Swinson ,you mean? Sadly Jo will ONLY support a conservative government ,everyone else has been ruled out by her.
Maybe she's not really a remainer and its that couple of million euro boost to her husbands company FROM the EU that has her attempting to appear pro EU ...and then theres the money from the fracking company she accepted ....although she knows Scotland doesn't want and wont accept fracking .

I read The Daily Mail as well as The Independent and the Observer I do not find that any of those three papers suggesting that people claiming benefits are scroungers, or even use those words.

Most of them publish reports where it is found that individuals have been criminally cheating the benefits system by telling lies and these people appear in court and are found guilty.

I have read people on GN accusing particular groups of people of being scroungers and being very offensive about them.

But the righteous take offence easily, or do I mean the leftious, or both?