This Country has gone too far to the right

Stemmed by greed ! Much gets more, much receives more and the insidious " sod you Jack, I'm alright " attitude among its MP's and those who vote for them.

You seem to repeating several untruths in your attacks on Jo Swinson paddyann. I know she is disliked by the SNP because she has proven to be able to take back some of their support and so is seen as a threat.

Jo Swinson has said that the LibDems will not enter any coalition with a Corbyn-led Labour Party or a Johnson-led Tory Party. If the next general election results in a minority government, the LibDems will judge each policy proposal on its merits and vote accordingly.

Where did you get this "couple of million euro boost to her husband's company" from?. Duncan Hames works for Transparenct International UK which is a registered
charity.

The annual accounts show a grant of £2000 from the EU climate fund in 2017-2018 and no money from the EU in 2018-2019.

www.transparency.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Transparency-International-UK-Trustees-Report-and-Financial-Statements-ye-31-March-2019.pdf

"Transparency International UK (TI-UK) is an independent organisation within the global Transparency International movement, with its own management team, board of trustees, policies, financial accounts and sources of funding.

We make public policy recommendations to politicians across the political divide with a view to securing legislative and regulatory reforms to prevent corruption. We do not accept any funding from donors seeking to influence these policies, nor are they influenced by those who fund us.

TI-UK is independent and politically impartial and does therefore both engage with and objectively criticise politicians regardless of their political opinion or party affiliation.

TI-UK has neither advocated for or against the UK’s continued membership of the European Union.

Our annual accounts, which list our sources of income, are published on our website. TI-UK is not working on any projects funded by the European Union."

Statement issued on 2nd October.

www.transparency.org.uk/press-releases/transparency-international-uk-statement-independence-impartiality/

trisher 60 years after I joined the LP I am suddenly influenced by the right wing press and have my views of Corbyn formed by them. Like H*ll they are. My views are formed from observing that treacherous man for something like 50years. Don't forget that Tony Benn also described him in similar terms.

Johnson and Corbyn are caste from similar moulds, owing loyalty only to their own views with no real regard for our nation or its people.

I am afraid I disagree with the whole premise. It seems to me that this country has lurched increasingly toward the left which leaves many middle road ordinary people suddenly finding themselves labelled " right wing" or "far right". It has been an unrelenting march to the socialist left in the last twenty years in my opinion - led often by older people ( older than me) who feel they want personal security ( to be looked after) at any cost.

Unfortunately I fear the opposite will be the end result. I have a very dystopic view of the future right now. I fear for my child and for the future in fifty years time the way things are moving now ( and the speed with which the socialist left have taken over mainstream institutions.

same for me absthame

I am amazed that some feel that they should abandon the Labour party over the appointment of a single man. I understand that some become as they grow older more conservative and less altruistic, but I do not understand how anyone can look at the situation in the UK and believe that by keeping a Conservative government in power they will do anything other than blight the lives of many and enrich a few. It is what might be called slinging the baby out with the bath
water.
As for aprilrose and and the speed with which the socialist left have taken over mainstream institutions.
Would you like to name the institutions? If they are things like the NHS this was a socialist creation. If the state education system this was a socialist creation. The pity is the other institutions such as rail and water are no longer under socialist control and ownership. And essentially that is what socialism is people controlling and running things and the profits being ploughed back not lining some fat cat's pocket.

But you supported Corbyn as LP leader intially, ab. So not the same as absthame who claims to have been observing his 'treachery' for 50 years... (has he been in Parliament that long?)

aprilrose Please could you give some specific examples of the way the UK has lurched towards the left over the last 20 years.

Admittedly, the leadership of the Labour Party is now more left-wing than it was 20 years ago, but it's not in power and it looks increasingly likely that it won't be under the current leadership. Therefore, it would appear that the country hasn't lurched towards the left and the Labour Party is unlikely to have any power to instigate change.

I really am struggling to think of examples which don't show a lurch to the right.

trisher How is the current education system a socialist creation?

Yes I did Maizie and every day I regret it,I didn’t vote for
a momentum party or a racist leader who is controlled .

Would you like to name the institutions?

Primarily the media , the church and politics. Those are the things in my opinion ( and it is my opinion and I am entitled to it regardless of whether you agree or not). Those are the institutions where the power lies. Hold those, you hold power.

growstuff - the Conservative Party has clearly moved left. The labour and Liberal parties have moved very left.

I rather think that incitement to revolution is coming from the right at the moment. It's the right that is egging the gullible on to hate our parliamentary democracy and the Rule of Law. They'll be ripe for storming the Bastille and the Winter Palace if this goes on for much longer.

I see that as coming from the left not the right. Although we agree in principle on what is going on there.

What is more pertinent, I think, is, what makes aprilrose think that the tory party has moved to the left.

Perhaps she could give us some examples

Yes, you are entitled to your views aprilrose. Why ever would you not be entitled to them, but I confess that I'm left baffled by them.

As an atheist, I can't really comment on religion and I wouldn't feel entitled to give an opinion.

As for the media, I see that most of the printed media is populist right-wing and the BBC certainly isn't left wing.

The leadership of the Labour Party has moved to the left, but I really can't see that the LibDems and the Conservative parties have. The current Conservative government is the most hardline right wing I ever remember. It would appear from the polls that many people support them, so I really can't see that the country has become more left wing.

If you have any tangible examples, I'm happy to reconsider my position.

It's totally beyond me that people think that the Conservatives aren't right wing [and are moving further to the right all the time]. If they win the next election with a huge majority I'm terrified of what they will do. My dream is still some sort of Labour/LibDem coalition. And it breaks my heart to see Scotland, yet again wanting to leave the Union, albeit this time understanding why they wish to do so.

Totally agree. The number of independent academic studies that have shown the bias of the media are of course totally ignored.
Corbyn gets fairer coverage from independent US media, like Michael Brooks, Sam Seder, Jimmy Dore etc. than he does from any UK media.
The similarities to McCarthyism are very stark. There are some good articles online questioning why supposedly left wing publications didn't challenge it which are very interesting. One problem was that even when they did they always bought in to the basic premise of their being a problem that had to be dealt with.

I agree with you Labaik, especially about Scotland. I honestly can't see Labour winning a GE with the current leadership. The current Conservative government should be a gift to the opposition.

I might well end up being banned for giving examples, such is the way in which freedom of speech is curtailed. But a couple which I think are fairly innocuous but demonstrate the point.

I need to make it clear as a starting point that Conservatism has always held as its premise the philosophy that people have the right to make their own decisions and that government should not interfere. Socialism tends toward the opposite.

Two small ways in which Conservatism has lurched to the left in the last few years - the re definition of marriage to allow same sex partnerships and changes in organ donation laws ( due in next year) where opt out becomes the norm rather than opt in systems. In the past, Conservatives would never have dreamed of telling people they will be deemed to donate organs by default. Neither would they, by definition of being the guardians of older standards, have changed the law to allow same sex marriages .

Many policies now being held by the Conservative Party are essentially secular progressive and highly cultural marxist ( which makes them left wing)

Now, I know those examples will be contentious enough amongst the liberal left here but they are at least areas where I am allowed to speak (still).

I also think some people are getting confused about fascism. It is generally a political system under one leader ( a dictator) which allows no other parties or views and state control. Most fascist states have started out from socialist roots - for example Pol Pot in Cambodia, North Korea, Germany ( under the national socialists) , USSR and China.

Ah now I understand aprilrose you are mistaking the freedoms and human rights recently introduced into society as left wing policies. What I do fail to understand is how you can assert these freedoms are left wing but at the same time decree that the left wing are controlling and fascist. No one is saying you have to be gay and get married, no one is saying your organs will be removed if you like it or not.
It is amusing that you think Conservatism has always held as its premise the philosophy that people have the right to make their own decisions and that government should not interfere. Socialism tends toward the opposite another way of putting that might be that people are free to die in the gutter and the state shouldn't interfere.
growstuff comprehensive schools were mostly introduced because it was a Labour Govs policy. Unfortunately so were Academies.

To be honest, I think you're the one who is slightly confused (certainly confusing) aprilrose.

You seem to be somewhat paranoid about expressing an opinion. Of course, Gransnet has rules, which it's entitled to have because it doesn't want to oversee a bitchfest, but you have the right to say why you think the country has lurched to the left.

Do you have any other examples rather than those relating to the church and same sex marriage? AFAIK the established church in England still doesn't allow same sex marriages.

As for organ donation, is that really a political issue? To be perfectly honest, I'm happy for anybody to benefit from any bits of me when I'm dead (not that I think any of me is in very good shape).

I really don't think those are good examples of the country lurching to the left politically.

BTW What the heck is a cultural Marxist? I've seen it written on loony right-wing message boards and never understand what it was all about.

trisher The most important education acts of the last 70 years were the 1944 Education Act and the 1988 Education Reform Act. Both still have a huge influence on the education system today and both were the responsibility of Conservatives (Rab Butler and Ken Baker).

Ironically, comprehensive schools were first introduced in the Tory shires because there weren't enough grammar school places for the growing middle class, who hated the idea of their offspring going to secondary moderns.

The education system in England is still very conservative (with a small "c") with a focus on the highest achievers - more is the pity. A levels are considered to be the gold standard and grammar schools are still an aspiration where they exist. I'm trying quite hard to think of any major influence the Labour Party has had.

growstuff although the 1944 Education Act did introduce schooling for all, the system has moved on so much from then. There are now few seperate Infants and Junior schools they have become Primaries. There are a few places where the grammar system still operates but most children will have a comprehensive education. Although a few comprehensives existed after 1944 their real beginnings are in the 1965 Labour government The largest expansion of comprehensive schools resulted from a policy decision taken in 1965 by Anthony Crosland, Secretary of State for Education in the 1964–1970 Labour government, a fervent supporter of comprehensive education. This had been the party's policy for some time. The policy decision was implemented by Circular 10/65, an instruction to local education authorities to plan for conversion.
As for the 1988 act even Baker Days have now been renamed

Well, that is me told then growstuff. I dont agree with you.

I dont believe that "human rights" actually exist beyond being political constructs.

As for the established church not accepting same sex marriage. They are on the road to changing toward that very soon.

If you do not understand the term cultural Marxist, I suggest you look up Gramsci. I am sure actually from other things of yours I have read that you do know what the term means and how it is currently being played out politically. But if you choose to say you do not, then there is little more we can say to each other.