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A broken country?

(236 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Wed 09-Oct-19 07:50:24

Looking at all the political threads, with their content so often one of complete and irreconcilable difference, it has occurred to me that we live in a very different country to the one we were brought up in.

Post war and for the subsequent decades, we lived in a society which largely accepted common goals such as attitude to extreme politics, the welfare state and its attitude to the unemployed and those physically or mentally disabled, or the attitude to people displaced by war or famine, etc.

We all had the same common goals. Where we differed was how we achieved these goals, which manifested in the political parties. Tories a largely centre right party, whose philosophical outlook was one of paternalism known as “one nation Toryism” and Labour, a centre left party whose philosophical outlook had been built and later expanded, on the recognition that the urban working class needed political representation, in order to represent its interests.

Both main parties largely accepted common goals, like those listed above, the difference was as I said how they could be achieved.

But now I would argue this system is rapidly breaking down, because we can no longer agree on what our common goals are.

Everything is in flux and under question.

This is resulting in huge divides, hate, and a parliament that reflects society at large which is so divided it can’t agree on the big issue of the day let alone carry on as a Parliament should with running the country. It seems paralysed.

I feel unsettled and dismayed at what is happening.

I can’t see a good outcome.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 16-Oct-19 10:14:03

Jo Maugham QC

Trying to warn against climate catastrophe?

Police: can I see your ID.

Far Right march?

Police: as you were.

How on earth did we get to this?

Whitewavemark2 Wed 16-Oct-19 10:16:34

I read the French are calling us.

“ The Hate Island”

How on earth did we get to this?

Hetty58 Wed 16-Oct-19 10:21:56

Whitewave, the French have always called us names! Agreed, though, that we must, by now, be the laughing stock of the entire world. Viewing politics as a comedy helps! Time for a re-run of 'Yes, Prime Minister'?

Whitewavemark2 Wed 16-Oct-19 10:59:39

Make sure you wear your X.R. Badge when you go to London

helena ?
@helenafmckeown

I was stopped & searched today, prevented to cross the river Thames unless escorted and threatened with arrest without warning if I assembled with one or more other people. Only because I wore an @ExtinctionR sticker. I used to feel safe here... amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/extinction-rebellion-blanket-ban-chilling-and-unlawful

varian Sun 20-Oct-19 16:26:08

Why would a no deal be catastrophic for British farming?

Trade embargo

EU legislation could effectively result in a trade embargo on the export of UK animal based products such as meat, eggs and dairy to the EU. These products can only be imported by the EU from approved countries, and it could take months for such status to be granted to the UK. The lamb industry would be particularly impacted. In 2017, 31% of domestic sheep meat production, the equivalent of 4.5million sheep, was exported and 94% was destined for the EU.

Increased imports

The UK government could avoid charging tariffs on imports to prevent a rise in food prices, which could have a negative impact on domestic food production and consumer choice, as well as an increase in imports of products produced to lower standards.

Export tariffs

Export tariffs could be imposed on the 60% of UK food, feed and drink that go to the EU, increasing export tariffs to an average of 27% on chicken, 46% on lamb, 65% on beef, and range from €172 to €1,494 per tonne in pork.

A cut in access to farm inputs

It is likely that trade barriers will go up between the UK and EU which could limit the availability of many farm inputs such as veterinary medicines, fertilisers, plant protection products, machinery parts and animal feed. Furthermore, as the EU will no longer recognise UK organic certification bodies, exports of organic products to the EU would be severely curtailed.

Less workers

The sudden end of labour mobility from the EU would cause serious problems when it comes to securing the necessary labour to harvest and process UK produce, as well as in related roles such as carrying out veterinary inspections.

Organic exports cut

As the EU will no longer recognise UK organic certification bodies, exports of organic products to the EU would be severely curtailed.

www.nfuonline.com/news/eu-exit/eu-exit-news/why-a-no-deal-brexit-is-catastrophic-for-british-farming/

aprilrose Sun 20-Oct-19 16:40:29

There are other markets not in the EU. There is also a very hungry domestic market. Where I live most farmers wanted to leave the EU. They cant all be wrong.

Stop the catastophising.

GracesGranMK3 Sun 20-Oct-19 16:56:40

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aprilrose Sun 20-Oct-19 17:18:19

I wasnt born in the 1950's so I can hardly return to a view I never about.

I sepent a lot of time talking to farmers about their views before the referendum. I know what they think and thought then. You have to talk to real every day farmers not the bodies that are supposedly speaking for them sometimes.

After all, I belong to a union. I pay my fees. Against my wishes it seems they pay part of that as a levy to the Labout Party. They also claim to speak for me on many matters relating to the industry I work in. However, in my experience much of what they say is political twaddle and not something I would put my name to ordinarily. But they do not ask me. They just ask for my payment . I pay up because my employer prefers we have a union and he has only one body to deal with when he wants to alter contracts etc.

aprilrose Sun 20-Oct-19 17:23:45

I read the French are calling us

“ The Hate Island”

How on earth did we get to this?

They can talk with their ongoing problems. smile

However, I think there is some truth in the statement. How did we get here .... well when at first you practice to thwart a democratic process, you end up with hate. Contempt breeds hate. Remain minded, note - it is your determination to overturn a democratic decision that has led to this. I don't think we will ever be anything but hate soon. I feel everywhere in my area. It isnt going to heal anytime soon.

Let us leave the EU and you might find that it will scab over sooner but the poison that has been injected will be there a long time I think.

growstuff Sun 20-Oct-19 17:27:14

Goodness knows where you live, aprilrose, but I sincerely hope I never end up there. It sounds full of ghastly people. I'm happy to say that where I live (and where most other people live) is different.

At one point this afternoon did you decide to go on Gransnet and wind up as many people as possible? hmm