Morals and standards of public behaviour

Boris may not be quite in the same league as Trump but his contempt for Parliamentary democracy and the courts, as well as his recent claims that it’s time to start thinking about elected judges shows he’s capable of thinking along the same lines.

Jane10 and Oopsminty make valid points about the amount rolling news/tweets etc we are subject to now, all that is out in the public domain that used to be hidden.
On the subject of Trump, he is frightening, and what he has unleashed just now on the Kurds is shocking.
Boris Johnson is nothing like Trump ( and I say that as one who doesn’t like him.)

Jane10, I think it is exactly the same now - the press still manipulate the public.

In the old days the press barons who owned and controlled the media were very powerful. Joe Public only got to hear what they decided to print.

pinkquartz I see what you mean about Ford.

The European Parliament wants to root out the corruption of our democracy by malevolent foreign powers but the so-called Brexit party (actually a private company) have voted against it.

They would not ever have been elected or have managed to manipulate the leave vote in the fraudulent referendum without foreign interference. They take their orders from Mr Putin.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russian-election-nigel-farage-brexit-party-eu-vote-elections-a9150571.html

Perhaps it may have happened in the past, but in recent years we have seen our democracy corrupted , not just by lying politicians, but by media moguls (who are often foreign billionaires or tax exiles), immoral currency speculators
and foreign powers who do not wish this country well and expolit the power of the internet to turn ordinary folk against each other for their own ends.

Quizqueen, your suggestion that the USA has no responsibility to Europe or the Middle East puzzles me.
The USA was involved in destabilising the Middle East, which contributed to the spread of Daesh.
The USA is said to be the strongest ally of the UK and was involved in both World Wars.
Trump avoided the draft to Vietnam yet says he only supports and admires veterans of that war who weren't captured and imprisoned in Vietnam.

It sounds as though you support Trump's America First agenda.
Heaven help us all if everyone took that approach to life.

GillT57 excellent post.

ilovecheese

yes it was a good business model....the money went straight back to Ford!
he was clever
But he and others prevented Unions and were horrible to the basic workers.

I m not commenting on salaried office staff at this time nonnie

dragonfly46

i am not wrong. Ford would not allow unions and invented the conveyor belt system
plus
US companies were notorious for using the company store system of payment.......tokens to be spent only at their own shop, instead of money

I am talking about historically I am not talking about now and I am not ignorant

nonnie

sadly we know we won't get any better from politicians.
they set the worst examples to young people.
with them it seems to be about what they can get away with and the rest of us can lump it.
I have given up expecting better

Rather the putting the blame at the feet of politicians we should e looking closer to home. As identity politics becomes the norm people are willing to excuse all sorts of behaviour, or place it at the doors of others, if it suits their end goal. It’s only by changing our voting preferences that we will see a real shift but how many people on here vote for their local independent candidate in elections? Not many I’ll bet - most people align themselves to a party or a cause, and that comes above everything else.

I don't think that all politicians in the past were necessarily more 'respectable', whatever that is; Kennedy for example was a known philanderer as was Lloyd George to name but two. In case anyone thinks I am getting fixated on sexual morals; I am not, but I am seriously concerned and frightened when I see the bullies who are in charge, people who have lied, been caught, and do not seem to be punished in any way. People who show no shame when they are (rarely) called out for a really whopping lie, people who are proof that the emptiest tin makes the most noise. How can we as parents, grandparents, teachers, or whatever, tell our children that it is unacceptable to throw tantrums to get your own way, that it is cruel to deny people the same chances you have, that it is wrong to belittle or bully people because of their gender, race, religion or beliefs, wrong to tell lies and even worse to keep on denying it louder and louder when you are found out, that it is wrong to refuse to share or to take more than you can possibly ever need just because you can? How do we do that when world leaders, with a few notable exceptions, are liars and bullies? How can any person support a President or a PM who they would not like as a Son in Law? I am truly confused by the deterioration in public behaviour and frightened by just how many people are prepared to accept it as a means to what they see as their ends.

Trumps tweets are absolutely mad at times. His staff must be tearing their hair out. If they complain too much he just sacks them.

Although I agree that politicians have always said what they thought they could get away with I do believe it is different now. The reason imo is that they have a bigger, instant audience with social media. Surely it is up to us to show our displeasure?

I, in my small way, won't 'like' or 'retweet' anything I agree with if the tweeter has used the 'F' word. It is getting harder and harder as it seems to be endemic.

There is no reason why American citizens should continually be expected to pay to police the world. Trump is correct in that many of the muslims in the prison camps, who may be affected by the withdrawal of troops, are of European or Middle Eastern origin, so what has it got to do with America. What's the point of having NATO and what exactly is their role here?

pinkquartz I think you are wrong about US companies. Ford was a good company. Also my DH worked for both General Mills and for Pepsi and they are both extremely good employers who look after their employees. Please do not generalise without the correct information.

pinkquartz I thought that Ford actually was a good employer because he wanted his employees to earn enough to be able to buy one of his cars. Perhaps that was just when Henry Ford ran the company though.

Sorry to digress but I think that was a good business model

The other links are that they are both liars.

Ah but dontcha know mcem ALL politicians lie.....?Alistair Carmichael said so in his defence in a Scottish court!He's still in a job despite making up a fairy tale and then "leaking it" to the press to discredit the FM.

The link minty is that they both behave dishonestly and yet hold on to supporters who choose to ignore these iniquities as they have, to some extent, lost their own moral compass and find it expedient to allow blatant dishonesty to be accepted as normal.

Not sure really.

Looking back we shoved children up chimneys. Girls of 12 were allowed, (forced) to get married. Usually to much older men. Politicians have always been up to all sorts of shenanigans. Children's Homes were rife with abuse.

We just didn't hear about all the 'stuff' we do today. No Internet.

I think people will always look back and say things were oh so much better.

As for Boris and Trump. Can't see the link really.

This goes some way to explain the hospital press: www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-what-did-boris-johnson-mean-when-he-said-there-were-no-press-at-his-hospital-visit

We can't get rid of terrible politicians except by democratic process , civil war, and civil disobedience.

It's become obvious on GN recently that many 'normal' people now find 'abnormal ' behaviour acceptable.
Lies, deviousness, back-stabbing, manipulation, bribery - all fine as long as they get the outcome they want.
Suits Trump to be seen to be 'bringing our boys back' or to bribe foreign governments to dish the dirt on opponents.
Suits BJ to tell outright lies and to manipulate gullible fans.
Suits those who are comfortably-off Tory supporters to prioritise the protection of their investments while branding those in need of benefits as scroungers.

Not only decent standards of public behaviour in decline but also an increased lack of compassion and responsibility for wider society.