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Morals and standards of public behaviour

(87 Posts)
GillT57 Fri 11-Oct-19 11:49:50

Over the past few days, the world has watched, generally appalled, as Trump has withdrawn troops from Kurdish areas and basically condemned thousands of people to terror, warfare, bombing, destruction. Over the past few months, we here have watched a PM tell lies, a cabinet go back on previous assurances etc., etc., Leaving aside, if we can, what side of the Brexit argument we are on, surely I cannot be the only one frightened, disgusted, ashamed of those who have been elected to represent the people in USA and GB? Why is no-one able or prepared to call these people out, confront them with their lies or the effects of their appalling acts?

Nonnie Fri 11-Oct-19 12:15:16

I agree. I find it so hard to accept the change in behaviour as so many of our politicians rant or babble all the time. Regardless of what they are talking about why can't they be pleasant and factual without all the shouting or abuse? I was listening to Leo Varadker the other day and he just spoke normally not a rant to be heard. I am not talking about what he said jut the way he said it.

Riverwalk Fri 11-Oct-19 12:17:30

Other than elections, there is very little that anyone can do!

Trump has so pushed, and broken, the boundaries of normal civilised behaviour, never mind that of the president of the US, anything now goes or just shrugged-off.

It's astounding what we've come to accept!

Trump swears black is white - just as Boris Johnson did when confronted in Whipps Cross hospital with his "there's no press here".

Jane10 Fri 11-Oct-19 12:24:29

I suppose such bad/stupid stuff happened in the past but we never heard about it. No immediate info simultaneously from all sides via the Internet. Strictly edited info might make its way into public knowledge but otherwise even soldiers letters home were censored.

gagsville Fri 11-Oct-19 12:29:46

I agree with all the above and there seem to be no boundaries for moral behaviour anymore. With social media in general, you can say anything about anyone however awful and before it is taken down as lies or old news; the damage is already done. How and who can begin to put this right?

Gonegirl Fri 11-Oct-19 12:30:59

I agree about Trump.

I think Boris has been desperately trying to find a way for us to leave the EU, as per the outcome of the referendum, without leaving the UK economy completely in tatters.

Can't see the comparison between the two politicians myself.

Amagran Fri 11-Oct-19 12:39:47

What is so worrying about the appalling behaviour of senior politicians like our PM and Trump, and the apparent acceptance of it by their senior colleagues, is that it normalises such behaviour so that people come to think that lying, immorality and a bullying culture is acceptable not just in public office but anywhere else in the workplace and beyond.

Toxic means do not justify ends. I would happily watch my own political preferences defeated if it took us off this very slippery slope.

pinkquartz Fri 11-Oct-19 12:44:07

People do have different morals.
we think all people have the same but they don't.
Clearly people like Johnson and Trump think they are above ordinary people and do not have to live by our confines on behaviour.
Also different cultures will evaluate differently.
In the UK we are very black and white with good and bad which I like......but when I used to travel I discovered that in some places all that counts is getting away with it.......
Trump and Johnson are very much their male ego. They like upsetting us.
It makes them feel more powerful than us.
Sadly they are more powerful than us.

pinkquartz Fri 11-Oct-19 12:46:34

I meant to add that the world is a smaller place these days and we are all influenced by more people from different backgrounds, cultures, religions etc...we are not as homogeneous as before.
Business show this a lot in the UK...ones now owned by US global companies and their attitude to their workers and customers is Pi** poor!

pinkquartz Fri 11-Oct-19 12:48:30

oops buttong pressed too soon.

Ford was not a good employer...Marks and Spencer and Cadburys were. Just two examples but in the US business was always more cutthroat and here we had Quakers and others that tried to improve the lives of their workers....

Now the US dominate globally......

Iam64 Fri 11-Oct-19 13:38:02

Jane10 I - 24 hour news does mean we get information quickly but, I can't imagine something like the action of Trump in military disengagement would have simply been tweeted in the early hours. Such decisions should only be made in full discussion with allies, the presidents own advisors and military. It's shocking that he's created a situation where Turkey can attack this region.
There are , I read 70,000 Daesh prisoners who can more easily escape as a result of this. Trump's response was to say it didn't matter because these jihadis would go to Europe not the USA.
He is simply beyond understanding.

His actions have further destabilised the whole region. You can't get involved, then just leave with no plan.

Nonnie Fri 11-Oct-19 13:44:19

Amagran Fri 11-Oct-19 12:39:47 I totally agree.

pinkquartz Fri 11-Oct-19 12:44:07 although I agree is it not reasonable to expect better of our politicians, especially senior ones?

mcem Fri 11-Oct-19 13:49:36

It's become obvious on GN recently that many 'normal' people now find 'abnormal ' behaviour acceptable.
Lies, deviousness, back-stabbing, manipulation, bribery - all fine as long as they get the outcome they want.
Suits Trump to be seen to be 'bringing our boys back' or to bribe foreign governments to dish the dirt on opponents.
Suits BJ to tell outright lies and to manipulate gullible fans.
Suits those who are comfortably-off Tory supporters to prioritise the protection of their investments while branding those in need of benefits as scroungers.

Not only decent standards of public behaviour in decline but also an increased lack of compassion and responsibility for wider society.

Alexa Fri 11-Oct-19 13:51:12

We can't get rid of terrible politicians except by democratic process , civil war, and civil disobedience.

Oopsminty Fri 11-Oct-19 13:57:10

Not sure really.

Looking back we shoved children up chimneys. Girls of 12 were allowed, (forced) to get married. Usually to much older men. Politicians have always been up to all sorts of shenanigans. Children's Homes were rife with abuse.

We just didn't hear about all the 'stuff' we do today. No Internet.

I think people will always look back and say things were oh so much better.

As for Boris and Trump. Can't see the link really.

This goes some way to explain the hospital press:

mcem Fri 11-Oct-19 14:51:04

The link minty is that they both behave dishonestly and yet hold on to supporters who choose to ignore these iniquities as they have, to some extent, lost their own moral compass and find it expedient to allow blatant dishonesty to be accepted as normal.

paddyann Fri 11-Oct-19 14:59:35

Ah but dontcha know mcem ALL politicians lie.....?Alistair Carmichael said so in his defence in a Scottish court!He's still in a job despite making up a fairy tale and then "leaking it" to the press to discredit the FM.

midgey Fri 11-Oct-19 15:00:41

The other links are that they are both liars.

Ilovecheese Fri 11-Oct-19 15:06:23

pinkquartz I thought that Ford actually was a good employer because he wanted his employees to earn enough to be able to buy one of his cars. Perhaps that was just when Henry Ford ran the company though.

Sorry to digress but I think that was a good business model

dragonfly46 Fri 11-Oct-19 15:15:57

pinkquartz I think you are wrong about US companies. Ford was a good company. Also my DH worked for both General Mills and for Pepsi and they are both extremely good employers who look after their employees. Please do not generalise without the correct information.

quizqueen Fri 11-Oct-19 15:16:39

There is no reason why American citizens should continually be expected to pay to police the world. Trump is correct in that many of the muslims in the prison camps, who may be affected by the withdrawal of troops, are of European or Middle Eastern origin, so what has it got to do with America. What's the point of having NATO and what exactly is their role here?

Nonnie Fri 11-Oct-19 16:23:27

Although I agree that politicians have always said what they thought they could get away with I do believe it is different now. The reason imo is that they have a bigger, instant audience with social media. Surely it is up to us to show our displeasure?

I, in my small way, won't 'like' or 'retweet' anything I agree with if the tweeter has used the 'F' word. It is getting harder and harder as it seems to be endemic.

Jane10 Fri 11-Oct-19 16:26:18

Trumps tweets are absolutely mad at times. His staff must be tearing their hair out. If they complain too much he just sacks them.

GillT57 Fri 11-Oct-19 16:50:27

I don't think that all politicians in the past were necessarily more 'respectable', whatever that is; Kennedy for example was a known philanderer as was Lloyd George to name but two. In case anyone thinks I am getting fixated on sexual morals; I am not, but I am seriously concerned and frightened when I see the bullies who are in charge, people who have lied, been caught, and do not seem to be punished in any way. People who show no shame when they are (rarely) called out for a really whopping lie, people who are proof that the emptiest tin makes the most noise. How can we as parents, grandparents, teachers, or whatever, tell our children that it is unacceptable to throw tantrums to get your own way, that it is cruel to deny people the same chances you have, that it is wrong to belittle or bully people because of their gender, race, religion or beliefs, wrong to tell lies and even worse to keep on denying it louder and louder when you are found out, that it is wrong to refuse to share or to take more than you can possibly ever need just because you can? How do we do that when world leaders, with a few notable exceptions, are liars and bullies? How can any person support a President or a PM who they would not like as a Son in Law? I am truly confused by the deterioration in public behaviour and frightened by just how many people are prepared to accept it as a means to what they see as their ends.

SirChenjin Fri 11-Oct-19 16:53:14

Rather the putting the blame at the feet of politicians we should e looking closer to home. As identity politics becomes the norm people are willing to excuse all sorts of behaviour, or place it at the doors of others, if it suits their end goal. It’s only by changing our voting preferences that we will see a real shift but how many people on here vote for their local independent candidate in elections? Not many I’ll bet - most people align themselves to a party or a cause, and that comes above everything else.