Mogg

Hmm. Yes. Does rather sound the same thing growstuff.

yes Gonegirl the Labour government made the people of Aberfan pay towards the removal of the tips from the money
given to the disaster fund.

The Blair government gave the money back to the village where it was invested to pay to maintain the memorial garden and the childrens graves.

Eleothan I am not using the Aberfan disaster, I have not
blamed the present Labour Party for the deeds of a past
Labour government.

I am saying no difference between blaming the present Tory
Government ,as far left labour supporters are doing, for the
cladding on the tower as blaming a labour government for
ignoring the warnings of the danger of the tips. And obeying the unions and keeping Lord Robens in his job.

If some posters can keep bringing up the 1945 labour government I can do the same about the 1966 labour government.

That's just childish.

Surely comparing 1966 with 2016 is not a valid comparison. Regulations and awareness as far as Health and Safety goes have considerably changed and government ministers should learn from the past. Might as well compare Grenfell to the Great Fire of London ( all those flammable materials ! ).

Ah well lemon over the years you've repeated your "wait and see" mantra so many times, why would you change now?
We've waited.
We've seen.

Gosh a Tory party member who is very cross indeed

Dr Bendor Grosvenor
@arthistorynews
I've voted for, worked for, been a member of, and even a historian of, the Conservative Party. It is time now to destroy it, to smash it utterly, so that people like Rees-Mogg and Bridgen can never be near power again.

If anyone has blamed the Conservative government for the installation of cladding on Grenfell then I feel they have rather jumped the gun. Issues like this - why that material was chosen and by whom, what research was done to check its fitness for the job in hand, whether regulations were strictly followed and monitored, whether those regulations were adequate, etc, etc - will presumably be examined in the second part of the inquiry.

However, the Conservative Party has always been dismissive of regulations and has said on many occasions that it wants to cut "red tape" and to loosen or do away with various protections.

It was a Conservative council that completely ignored concerns raised by residents about the cladding and about fire safety measures within the building, and treated those who continued to pressure them for answers as troublemakers.

It was a Conservative council that was nowhere to be seen in the hours following the tragedy, leaving it to voluntary organisations and concerned individuals to help where they could. The Leader of the Council, in the midst of this terrible event, sent an e-mail that seemed more concerned with the, as he put it, the “complete media shitstorm” directed at the Council than in the plight of the people of Grenfell.

It was a Conservative Mayor of London who, while pursuing expensive and very flawed "vanity projects" himself, made significant cuts to fire officer numbers and fire engines and who told a Labour member of the GLA Fire Panel who protested against this to "get stuffed".

It is a member of the Conservative Party who has deemed it fit to imply that the people of Grenfell lacked the common sense that he so confidently asserts people like himself would have shown in the midst of chaos and against the instructions of the LFB.

anniebach Your feelings about Labour and Aberfan did not appear to prevent you from being a "loyal Labour Party member" for many years. It appears it's only when Corbyn became leader that your disgust regarding the past actions of Labour governments was ignited.

annie nor being very selective in telling the “truth” about Aberfan

I am working in the office at the moment, but just to quickly put the record straight on the Aberfan disaster, there were no recognisable prior warnings that the Spoil tips would collapse onto the school.

The reason for that lack of warning was the fact that the Health & Safety at Work Act had not come into being at the time. That act for the first time brought forward Risk Assesment as the basis of all safety in the workplace. Therefore when the local pit management decided to place the spoil on that hillside no risk assessment was carried out on any of the Hazards that would be incurred in doing so.

Indeed, in 1966 at the time of the disaster the concept of workplace risk assessment had not even been conceived and therefore responsibility for the tragedy was very difficult (if not impossible) to place by the inquiry which followed.

The Aberfan tragedy was a major factor why the Health & Safety at Work Act was brought into being in 1974 with the official support of all parties in the House of Commons.

I apologise as I did not wish to bring the Aberfan disaster into this thread, but as individual persons and organisations are being accused once again by one forum member of gross negligence, I feel it right that forum members should be aware of the true situation at the time of the disaster.

Eloethan, thanks for another good post

Corbyn on Grenfell:

"I’ll tell you what’s common sense: Don’t put flammable cladding on people’s homes. That’s common sense.

"Don’t close fire stations and don't cut fire fighters. That’s common sense. And don’t ignore residents when they tell you their home is a death trap."

So the enquiry in Grenfell has criticised the decision to tell residents to remain in the building has caused much anger on this forum but excuses made for the enquiry into the Aberfan disaster which said Lord Robens was economical with the truth .

I will add a link and ask , please scroll down until you reach a letter from 1964 where a NCB engineer said of the tip

it is likely to be a danger to Pantglas School.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/terrifying-tale-ineptitude-aberfan-disaster-12025544

This says it all

Demand for Mogg resignation trending on twitter

Trevor Warner ?
@trevorw1953

Whether
@Jacob_Rees_Mogg
resigns is a matter for him and him alone. Were I in his position I would, but then my concept of personal honour is probably higher than his.

I have just listened to the Mogg interview. The original question was whether race and class played a part in what happened at Grenfell. JRM stated it was not the case, referred to the cladding and the stay put policy which he questioned and the bit that everyone is up and arms about is the common sense comment. I personally don't think he was implying anything that he and the interviewer were superior in any way rather just being conversational as ever the febrile media whip it up to be something way beyond the intent, putting their own agendas on it.

It's not the time to be 'conversational' when being interviewed about such a tragic event - he should, being the intelligent, media savvy, politically astute man we're led to believe he is - choose his words very, very carefully. Implying that it simply came down to common sense shows he's questionnining both the experience and decision making of the fire service and the residents for not doing the 'right thing' - which is quite rightly why there's been such a backlash.

AnnieBach it's just too awful to dwell on. One of the dreadful things that have happened in our life times.

Grandad You're right. Many years ago, I went to a talk by somebody who had done a PhD on the psychology of industrial organisations, which included the Aberfan disaster. He was part of the group which was calling for H & S regulations to be brought in.

Apparently, engineers working for the Coal Board were worried about the tips, but the managements systems and procedures weren't in place for them to take their concerns further. Therefore, it's true that those at the coalface knew there were dangers, but those at the top weren't truly aware of them.

Thank you Gonegirl , all that waffle posted about health and safety is just an attempt to cover up the truth . They knew there was danger and ignored it and kept their jobs .

Perhaps those at the top re Grenfell were not truely aware of the dangers !

Make one doubt about nationalising every thing again

A lot of high rise buildings still have that cladding in place. Not just Conservative ones either.

I assume they have an evacuation procedure in place.

I didn’t realise that there were conservative or labour buildings?

I think if you listen to the interview he did not just say it was common sense, rather a tragic set of circumstances that led to the tragedy.
Yes he should have chosen his words wisely but the reaction is disproportionate to the intent. And of course a gift to the other parties to exploit for their agendas.

Come on, WW2.

There has been many comments that Grenfell was a Conservative council

That was my point