Party Campaigning

In the past, Varian, when we have had such rude and self-serving OPs it has turn out that there is a section of the population who believe just disagreeing with their views was "a step too far". This may not be what the OP means in this instance but unless we are told it just sounds rather like very ill-mannered sour grapes.

I wonder if what the OP means by "party campaignjng" is saying positive things about the party you support and criticising the other parties. If so, it is difficult to distinguish that from "poltical discussion".

So what did you actually want to achieve by starting a thread? This was not making a comment, you felt it your view of how others were posting deserved a whole thread.

What a pity that people feel the need to start political campaigning on Gransnet. Nothing wrong with political discussion but this sort of posting is a step too far on this site.

You do not explain what you mean by political campaigning and you accuse other posters of this sort of posting, again undefined other than it being something you don't like and therefore should not have to tolerate. Anyone could see what you were intending by this post and it appears from the replies that most people have.

Yes Eloethan, I completely agree, that by starting this thread, my intention was to be provocative. As expected, certain posters have thought me arrogant to do so.
GracesGranMK3 On other sites flamers are dealt with, sadly not on this site A strange quote coming from you!
growstuff I appreciate well reasoned debate and I've found GN disappointing in that respect This is totally what I'm getting at.

anniebach You say when you first joined Gransnet the political forum used to be "OK", with "posters who supported different parties" but "not now".

Really? Why then are there so many long threads with people debating (and often in quite a bit of depth) topical political issues?

I'm sure most people can identify which posters lean to the left or right, because they have made it quite clear which parties they support and which they definitely do not. And there are several posters who have stated their varying political allegiances.

gangy 5 Well, you have sort of added to it really haven't you. To start a thread like that at the beginning of an election campaign is really asking for more of the same isn't it.

The referendum campaign did more than "ignore" facts - it set out to undermine anybody who knew what they were talking about by smearing "experts" as part of some kind of "global elite".

Two wrongs don't make a right!

The lies of the referendum campaign by VoteLeave were on a different scale entirely. They were a co-ordinated effort to ignore facts and appeal to prejudices.

Cummings couldn't give a flying fig about any of the issues people were concerned about. It was all a game to him and the objective was to win by whatever unscrupulous means. He's still Johnson's advisor. We know that Johnson has a history of "story telling" before he employed Cummings, so the two are a lethal combination.

Dirty tricks will and are being played by all parties leading up to the GE.
Conservatives editing Starmer interview, Lib Dems putting out misleading figures to the public that make it look as if they are doing much better than they are in polls, and Labour
( Diane Abbott again!) putting out a misleading tweet about
Ian Austin and Ken Clarke.
And so it will go on.....no political party is as pure as the driven snow.

@varian. Not the only lies it seems.

Thanks for that Maizie. I think those were probably the same words. I actually saw a video of him making the claim. He was boasting about how he'd fooled the public and he was deliriously happy that he'd "won" by tricks and lies. He knew very well that the £350,000 figure was a lie. I can remember the expression on his face - it was really quite frightening - he seemed like a mad man.

It was only the second time I'd come across him. Before that, he'd been a SPAD for Michael Gove and was apparently behind some of Gove's more outlandish ideas. Cummings apparently came up with the term "blob" to describe anybody against his reforms and it was during this time that Cameron called him a "career psychopath".

Buried in a 19,800 word Spectator essay written by former online editor and Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings is an admission: The Brexit referendum was won by lying to the public.

The whole brexit tragedy is based on lies which were sold to decent trusting people.

If you were won of these who was deceived please wake up.

Reject the deceit. I know it is much easier to fool people than it is to get them to admit that they were fooled but the evidence is overwhelming.

@growstuff Is it in the Spectator article linked to in this piece?

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/

Just looked back and notice autotext has taken over in my last post. "talkers" should have read "flamers".

Lol No thanks Maizie. I've spent many hours reading it, trying to find something to justify his reputation as a genius. I think it was probably on YouTube or the MSM somewhere, but he's maybe had it deleted.

I expect it'll be somewhere in his interminable blog, growstuff. If you can be bothered to plough through the 'I am the greatest living genius thwarted by men of common clay' stuff...

gangy5..... I think there will be many who agree with your OP but because of aggressive posters may not come out and say so.

In recent times, politicians have become more aware that party politics are about belief systems. I wish I could find it, but there's a video somewhere of Dominic Cummings boasting that the referendum was won by tapping into people's belief systems and prejudices. I've forgotten the actual words he used, but he knew that Leave would lose if they argued rationally.

I'm not rubbishing anybody. Yes, I agree with you that belief systems are about more than politics, but they do tend to define a person's politics, which is why issues such religion and money are often intertwined with politics. In some parts of the world, political parties are heavily influenced by religion (eg Northern Ireland). I think it's quite difficult to separate belief systems from politics.

Belief systems aren’t just about politics though are they Growstuff? They’re about religion, personal health and morals, work ethic, family, friends, socialising, money etc.

There’s no need to rubbish someone with different opinions to your own, just accept that they see things differently.

Well GracesGranMK3 your post says it all

Let's hope so gangy5 and then we won't get people telling others where they can and can't post and how they should do it as the OP does. The arrogance of that sort of post is quite stunning.

Surely we should just let's people discuss the subject avoid the subjects the aren't interested in. This thread was yet another intended to goad. On other forums "talkers" are dealt with. Sadly not on GN.

I usually ignore posts which don't say very much. The posts which annoy me are those which seem quite deliberately flippant and distracting, snipe at other people or attempt to shut down political threads .

To be honest, there are plenty of other areas on Gransnet. Nobody's forcing anybody to join in or even read the threads.

I have some very strong views on various political issues, although I don't conveniently slot in to any of the existing political party. I must admit that I would appreciate well-reasoned debate and I've found Gransnet somewhat disappointing in that respect. I would like people with opposing views to defend and justify their opinions rationally because I don't think I'm always right, but I suspect some people would see that as a spat.

Growstuff, you’re right that politics is based on belief systems, but some people hold their particular views much more strongly than others do. Some are very much middle of the road, whilst others lean one way or the other. Some people can’t see another’s person’s point of view at all, but others are very empathetic. Some tolerate others opinions, others don’t, and even seem to dislike the person rather than the opinion.
Sadly I do think some Gransnetters avoid the political threads because they can get extremely heated and they don’t like the conflict.

Whitewave, who’s Anne