Meat or no Meat - wow

IMO many of us eat a lot less meat than we used to - dh and I certainly do, twice a week at most. I only buy U.K. meat, never Danish bacon or any foreign pork or bacon, because of the factory farming issue. Any UK pork and bacon I buy will be high welfare. For the same reason I won't buy Lurpak butter. Any chicken will be free range, more expensive, but we use every scrap.

When we do have meat, it's usually rather less than we used to have. E.g. I find one FR chicken breast, with lots of veggies and noodles, is plenty for two in a stir fry.

Why Hetty58?

I think there is a lot of research out there that shows the harmful effects of eating meat. But it is a personal choice. It is also a personal choice if someone wants to not eat meat. I don't think vegans can be attacked for not wanting to end another animal's life, when it is completely unnecessary. Dairy production is also quite sad when you look into it.
We are omnivores. We can get all of our nutrients from plants except B12 is very difficult to get. But to be honest, judging by the huge shelf loads of vitamins available to buy at the supermarket, I would guess most meat eaters also don't get the required nutrition. Many end up on medication or in hospital through poor diet. Vegans can be unhealthy also of course. Most Drs don't receive much nutrition training, which is why they say kids need meat, when they don't. Kids need a range of nutrients, just like grown ups!
Personally I don't want to kill an animal when I can eat just as well without killing an animal. I have oat milk and buy my fruit and veg at a local farm shop. I do eat some soya. But if you look through reports, I believe something like 90% of soya is used for animal feed!!
It is impossible to be perfect, but eating less meat, consuming less of everything generally, is likely to be the best for the future.

Actually Razzy vast quantities of the vitamin supplements swallowed are down to clever marketing rather than physical need. Yes we are omnivores which means we get our nutrition from a mixture of plant and animal sources. The majority of athletes and other sportspeople follow an omnivore diet, and you'd hardly call them unhealthy. It's all a question of balance, you can eat unhealthily as omnivore, vegetarian or vegan, although I'll assume vegetarians and vegans might be a little less likely to as the need to monitor food for its content could raise awareness.

There is a school that raised their own pig, encouraging the children to learn all about the whole process, from its care, to it being sent off to be slaughtered.

The headmaster received death threats from vegans.

Exactly, Jura2. I will be making a batch of bolognaise soon, and as usual, besides the onions and tomatoes will stretch it with red lentils, plenty of mushrooms, carrots and celery, all chopped very small.
Red lentils are brilliant for 'stretching' since they don't need soaking, disintegrate quite quickly, and thicken the liquid nicely.

janipat quite agree. People have died from drinking too much water. Anything in excess is likely to be damaging.

Like others, I do not eat, meat less frequently, but in smaller portions. We have always preferred casseroles and stews to roasts and large chunks of meat.

I also love vegetables so like Jura and Witzend, I have just taken the recipes I have always enjoyed and added more veg. Meat portion size has gone down from 4 ozs to 2 ozs and chicken breasts, which I always found far to big for 1, have been replaced by boned chicken thighs, one per person. We eat fish meat and cheese and lots of vegetable dishes, some days our meals are all vegan, not by design or plan, but that will just happen if you have a wide and varied diet.

Eat well, not too much, most of it plants. You cannot really fault it as a guide to eating healthily

Oh merlotgran He did the work, his boss got the OBE

Isn’t that why the OBE got dubbed ‘Other Buggers Efforts’!

Good one that. ?

MissA it is the sheer viciousness of some groups of vegans which is astonishing. I am not speaking necessarily about the UK but some things which are happening in other countries are very worrying because of the violence involved.

I was always told that vegetarians (never heard of vegans when I was young) were gentle people.

Each to their own, I say. If someone wants to eat a vegan or vegetarian diet that is fine.
Let us all encourage ethical farming.

By the way, what would anyone suggest for a coeliac who is also allergic to lentils, beans and soya? Oats are also a no-no as they contain avenin.
Answers on a postcard (or in a post please).

Callistemon I cannot understand why there are Vegans who hold animal life sacred should be prepared to spill human blood in support of their cause.

I also ask a similar question about allergies. DDiL has an autoimmune disease and has become allergic to soya, nuts and fresh fruit. This also cuts out a lot of milk replacement products - almond and soya milk - and the many products containing soya and nut products.

As it is I have to scan every product I give her with care. I was trying to buy her some chocolates for Christmas yesterday and trying to find some where the emulsifier in it was not soya based. I did manage to find some in the end. Her soya allergy is severe enough for her to carry an epipen,

It is not easy- and I can't give an answer as it would take some serious study to find alternatives. I know as GS is highly allergic to egg- and it is a nightmare finding products that he can eat. It takes hours to shop and scan everything- and so many products that do not contain egg, will still say 'may contain traces off'. He carries an epipen with him at all times, and has had several trips to A&E with anaphyllactic shock- despite all of us being so so careful. Not only with ingredients, but possible cross contamination.

So there is a solution for all- but it needs time taken to study possibilities. In many cases, it will include some meat and dairy products- and there is nothing wrong with that, per se.

No-one is asking for all to become vegan- but to eat less, and better quality, local, well reared meat. So if you can't add lentils to bolognese, add more carrots, mushrooms, whatever your child can eat.

I have just been listening to You and Yours on R4. They had a very interesting interview with a spokesperson from the Agricultural and Horticultural Development Board.

He pointed out that only 40 per cent of our agricultural land is suitable for arable crops and that grassland is a much better sink for carbon than growing crops. He pointed out that the UK is almost unique in the extent that our cattle are grazed on grass and not fed only on cereal and other non-grass based protein.

There was also an interview with a Farmer who is working to make his farm carbon neutral.

The problem is people like to focus on the feed lots of the USA and then suggest that all cattle. worldwide are reared that way, which is not true.

It is a bit like making a programme about the extremist wing of veganism and extrapolating that they are typical of vegans world wide and saying they should be treated as terrorists and subject to anti terrorism legislation.

Both propositions are equally ludicrous.

Unique is not really correct. Where I live, cows live on grassland from June to end October- and then are never fed grain or even sillage - as to produce Comté (on French side) and Gruyères (on Swiss side) they have to be fed natural dried hay and nothing else.

I did say almost unique, and he was talking of the country as a whole, not individual regions, or products.

Agreed- but this is the case for most of Europe- as compared to Brazil, USA and Argentina, etc.

In Normandy where I am now, the cows are all undercover and being fed the maize that walled us in this summer. They also grow rape for cattle feed as well.

When we lived in SW France the cows had a similar life to those in Jura's area.
But there were only small herds, and all for milk, not meat.
Until they became too old for milk then sold off for cheap cuts of beef.
Except for veal - we could hear the mother cows crying for their babies as they were taken off to the slaughterhouse.

Yes, we have 3 small dairy farms as neighbours- the cries of a cow running up and down the wire fence to try and get back to the barn and the calf- are heart rendering.

Calves are actually kept in small separate areas for a while before going to butcher's - as the proximity encourages the cows to provide more milk. But it is grass only in the fields- then dried hay only in winter- rules about quality AOC cheese are very strict.

I don't eat much meat myself but do have to feed my dog meat. And pets seem to be getting more and more popular. I know there's that 'bugs' dog food but it's a bit pricey.

I have a friend with a very healthy vegetarian dog.

well yes,, I've got one too- but...

Another big issue, and linked to dog/cat food- is that we no longer eat meat as our grandparents did. We only eat the 'good' bits (mea culpa here, big time) and not the offal- and this is even more so for the current generation. Liver, kidneys, tripe, tongue, etc, etc. - so perhaps it is good that our pets eat all that, which is nutritious, etc. Here in rural areas, all the above are still eaten by the elders- but the younger generation just do not want it. I hate offal- and yet I know that we should go back to eating it all- to minimise the number of cattle raised- and by respect for them, as well as the environment.

Scrambled kidneys on toast, liver and bacon casserole (with proper bacon, not that Danish stuff) are firm favourites with us but no way can I face tripe or tongue. Tried both once and they're yuk!

Tripe is very good for dogs. Dogs can eat vegetables but cats have to have meat, and there are probably as many cats as dogs.