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Corbyn to borrow £58 billion to repay WASPI woman.

(198 Posts)
newnanny Wed 27-Nov-19 12:24:55

He said after about 6 times of asking how it will be apid for that he will borrow more to do it.
This means the debt will be passed on to the next generation to pay for. That can't be fair for our children and grandchildren to have to compensate us when they will have to work until 70 or more before getting a pension. What do you think?

GrandmaJan Wed 27-Nov-19 12:31:39

newnanny I agree with you but I suspect our grandchildren will have to wait until they are even older than 70 to retire. I’m one of the WASPI women, I was born in 1953 although I get my state pension now so I do think I’m one of the lucky ones. I’ve decided that should we end up with a Labour government & I do get the lump sum promised I’m going to share it with my 3 grandchildren to be deposited into their bank accounts.

petunia Wed 27-Nov-19 13:23:26

Crikey. How do I feel about the labour pledge to help out the WASPI women. Firstly, I'm one of them. By my calculations by the time I get my pension I will have lost over forty thousand pounds in pension payments. Not to mention bus passes and winter fuel payments.

On the one hand I feel that we were not informed in a way that is currently acceptable. There were no discussions on Twitter or Facebook, Jeremy Vine wasn't interviewing relevant ministers and the opposition endlessly. Question Time and News Night were silent. Mainstream news papers didn't cover it. How were we to know the devastating blow that would hit us. It was unjust and poorly communicated.

But what really ground my gears was that that change from 65 to 66 suddenly changed, under the coalition government. That was more open but the public were mislead as to how much women would be affected. News stories at the time said that only some women would have a maximum of two years to wait for their pension, smoothly glossing over the wait from 60 to 65. No wonder there is so much opposition. It looks like the WASPI women are moaning about a less than two year wait maximum.

On the other hand I'm not so sure.

Its one heck of a sum of money to pay out. And with Labour promising free everything from Wi-Fi to housing, that's worrying. When Corbyn was interviewed last night he could not explain where that money would come from. Morally maybe WASPI women should have some sort recompense. But really, can it be paid without taking cash from other services. I'm torn on this

Annecan Wed 27-Nov-19 13:35:50

Unfortunately, this is just Corbyn doing his usual vote for me and I'll give everybody anything they want. He was bumbling and lost in last nights interview and completely taken off guard when asked to explain where the money would come from.
The man has a script and can't vary from it. He is dishonest and incompetent. Sadly the country will go to the dogs if he gets in. Very very scary.

eazybee Wed 27-Nov-19 13:36:09

Repay what, precisely?
Women allowed to retire at sixty have evaded five years of pension contribution, plus drawing five years of pension which others are contributing to whist working.
Plus all the women with their part-time jobs; lower wages but also lower contributions.
How many men work part-time during the bulk of their lifetimes?

GillT57 Wed 27-Nov-19 13:44:48

I think we have to read around all the anti Labour manifesto hysteria ( assuming you read the correct one and not the fake one set out by the vile Tories). Any monies refunded will be adjusted to take into account any benefits received during the period of pension entitlement, and surely, the money received will go back into the economy? It will also enable some women to retire from their jobs and potentially open up those jobs to others under retirement age. Personally, I don't have a problem with it, perhaps they could cancel the £4m+ per year subsidy to the users of the bars and restaurants in the HoC to pay towards it?

freyja Wed 27-Nov-19 14:01:32

Typical we women are marginalised enough already but now we are made to feel guilty for being born at the wrong time. I am a Waspi being born in the July 1953, 5 months after the cut off date. I had no letter or notice of the change and had to retired at 60 because that's what happened but without a pension for another 5 years despite paying NI for 30 years. I was 'lucky ' because my husband was working then but still is at the age of 70 in order to catch up on the lost income to our household. It was my brother who pointed out that the Tory government had stolen £30,000 from me.

Now I am made to feel guilty because the Labour party has found a conscious and want to return my money that I worked for the last 30 years. Everyone is wringing hands and worrying how is the country going to find the money. Shame on you all, the government stole it and it is they who has to pay it back. If this happened in the real world thieves are sent to prison.

IF and I really mean IF I do get it back it will be up to me what I do with my money. We may have a holiday as it has been 5 years since we had one or pay off our mortgage because we could not do so, or I may pay my husband back the extra he had to earn instead of retiring. One thing is for sure, my grandchildren are well provided for with or without my pension but not until after we are gone, so the future for them is taken care of, they will just after wait I like have too.

Dinahmo Wed 27-Nov-19 15:00:36

Corbyn actually stated in last night's interview with AN that the moneys "owed" to the WASPIs would be repaid over 5 years. He said some would be out of government surpluses and that the rest would be borrowed. Over 5 years. He said that several times and still AN attacked him for borrowing 60 billion in one year.

Do none of you understand that this should have been sorted years ago? Obviously not - you chose to attack Corbyn for this instead.

You talk about your children and grandchildren repaying this debt. Who do you think paid for the loans for all the wars we've had since the early 18th century? My grandparents would have been paying for the loan for WW1 and both they, my parents and our generation for the loans for WW2.

Calendargirl Wed 27-Nov-19 15:07:32

I don’t think the WASPI payout will be highest on Labour’s agenda, IF they get in.

newnanny Wed 27-Nov-19 16:00:50

Does anyone know how it will happen? If the WASPI woman had received the pension at 60 they would have got the smaller old pension but will now get the newer larger pension. How will this be rectified? Does anyone know if an algorithm will be used?

Dyffryn Wed 27-Nov-19 16:23:06

I was born in 56, I too received no notification of the increase to my pension age from the government. From the age of 18 thought I was paying in so that I could retire at 60. The government in my opinion has stolen my money. That money went somewhere. If I had been given adequate notice about the rise in age perhaps I would not feel so angry about it. I am delighted that Labour will be giving me some compensation. The money they are proposing to give me was mine in the first place.

freyja Wed 27-Nov-19 16:29:46

I get the old pension

Doodledog Wed 27-Nov-19 16:51:55

I agree, Dyffryn. It is not a question of finding the money - the money was paid with our NI contributions. The younger generation will pay their contributions to cover our pensions, and then theirs will be paid from the contributions of the one that comes after them.

lemongrove Wed 27-Nov-19 17:08:52

The WASPI money will be the least of the wild spending if Corbyn got in.His answer ( actually, his puppet master McDonnell) will borrow money for everything.

Callistemon Wed 27-Nov-19 17:14:03

Women allowed to retire at sixty have evaded five years of pension contribution, plus drawing five years of pension which others are contributing to whist working.

eazybee I resent and refute your assertion that women who retired at sixty have evaded paying their dues.
That was the rule at the time, we evaded nothing.

Moreover, those who retired before 2016 whether age 60 or a little older are existing on the lower tier of the State Pension.

I've been thinking about this over the last couple of days and think that everyone should be put on to this higher tier pension, after all, we are going to lose out in the long term even if we did retire at 60.

I'm getting about £35 a week less than someone who will be retiring on the new higher State Pension.

Callistemon Wed 27-Nov-19 17:15:28

Pensions are paid out of current taxation, Dyffryn, there is no savings pot as there is with self-funded private pensions.

Callistemon Wed 27-Nov-19 17:17:00

It was never fair for men to have to work until 65 before they received the State Pension either.

Doodledog Wed 27-Nov-19 17:48:59

Pensions are paid out of current taxation, Dyffryn, there is no savings pot as there is with self-funded private pensions.
I think that most of us are aware of this (they are paid out of National Insurance, not taxation) but the point is that there is no need for money to be 'found', as women who contributed have already paid in.

We know that the money we paid was used to pay the pensions of the previous generation, but the next generation's contributions will pay ours, and so on.

I agree that everyone who has contributed for the number of years that were required when they retired should be on the higher pension, and those who did not should have theirs calculated with the new figure (£168) as the starting point. All any of us can do is play within the rules that are in place, and if they are changed without notice or consultation, it is very unfair to penalise anyone.

I also agree that those who paid the required NI and then retired at 60 have not evaded anything - how could they have been expected to see into the future?

MaizieD Wed 27-Nov-19 17:56:23

From Richard Murphy's blog:


How to pay £58bn for WASPIs

"...a government doesn't go and look in the piggy bank before it promises to pay. It can pay because its promises are always good. And that's because it makes our money. And we accept that fact, because fact it is.

And when it has paid - which payment (we) will accept because it will be in our, state made money - then the question can be asked as to whether or not that new payment needs to be reclaimed by the government from the economy.

There are three ways to reclaim it.

One is quantitative easing, but that's rare.

The second is to promote new borrowing. But let's also be clear that the reason why new borrowing will be possible is because there will be more money in the economy. And the reason why there is more money in the economy is because the government spent it into existence. And so the so-called borrowing will in fact be the redepositing of the money the government spent back with the government, but now it will have become private wealth. So the spending has to precede the borrowing.

And third, the money could be cancelled by way of tax if it is necessary to do so to control inflation. But this is possible because the spend will become someone's income. And they will be taxed on it. And when they spend the net proceeds after tax the recipient of that spending will also be taxed, and so on, until the tax is recovered. So the spend pays for itself, eventually. But along the way it will create economic growth, redistribute income and wealth in society and reduce hardship. And all by simply letting money flow from the government and back to it, in due course.

That's the miracle of government spending. It transforms lives, the economy and well being. And all because the government simply promises to pay. And we accept its promise because we know it is good for it.

Which is precisely how it pays for everything."


MaizieD Wed 27-Nov-19 21:47:20

Clear that no-one is really interested in how this can be done. hmm

Doodledog Thu 28-Nov-19 01:03:41

If my house caught fire, and I had paid the insurance, I wouldn't really be interested in from where the insurance company got the money to pay me what they owed me.

Peonyrose Thu 28-Nov-19 06:29:15

That's the trouble with Labour, they don't dare where the money comes from, borrow to the hilt, then when broke and out of office, leave a note as the last Chancellir did, for Conservatives, Sorry coffers empty, best of luck. Absolutely irresponsible, who cares who picks up the tab as long as it's not them, like some scrounger at the bar whose hand never goes in his pocket.

travelsafar Thu 28-Nov-19 06:42:57

If this money is ever paid out to the women, those who are currently on Pension Credit, receiving HB, C/Tax rebates and free glasses and dental treatment may well be over the limit to claim these benefits. Therefore it will save much money in that way.

growstuff Thu 28-Nov-19 06:57:10

It just isn't true that Labour governments get the country into more debt than the Conservatives.

Under Labour, the national debt rose very slowly until the global financial crash, caused by the collapse of the sub-prime mortgage market in the US. The alternative at the time would have been to let UK banks go bankrupt, which would have meant individual savers (possibly including you Peonyrose) losing an awful lot of money.

As can be seen from the graph, the debt was beginning to level off in the last year or so of the last Labour government, as the economy begin to recover.

Unfortunately, the Conservatives and austerity killed off the recovery. You can see quite clearly in the graph that the national debt has risen considerably since the Conservatives (initially with LibDem as a junior partner) came to power.

By the way, the Office for Budget Responsibility, which produced the graph, was set up by the Conservatives.

growstuff Thu 28-Nov-19 07:00:14

True travelsafar. The women who will benefit most are those who need it least. Those already receiving benefits could very well find the amount deducted from the payout.