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Turkeys don't vote for Christmas

(52 Posts)
grannypauline Thu 28-Nov-19 10:14:25

I quote from a friend's message on Facebook (!!) because he sums it up so well:

The very, very wealthy individuals who support the Tories have made money hand over fist throughout austerity, whilst the working class have suffered cuts in our NHS, the Police Force, the Fire Brigade, schools, libraries, mental health budgets, social care for the elderly....the list goes on. They have made money by forcing workers to accept no-contract jobs, paying wages that are not enough to live on.

Meanwhile their mates in the government pass laws to shackle the trade unions, and laws that allow wealthy people like Richard Branson to sue the NHS because he did not get a contract.

They fail to pass laws that:
protect workers and inhabitants from poor building regulations - and they cut back on inspections as in Grenfell Towers
prevent CEOs from being paid large sums of money for running firms into bankruptcy
prevent businesses from underfunding pensions schemes so workers who thought they were providing for their retirement are left high and dry, with the tax payer picking up the bill.

The wealthiest people have made buckets of cash during the last 10 years of austerity whilst the poor have been forced to live on the streets through lack of housing. Low wage workers and their families are increasingly turning to food banks to survive.

Surely most fair thinking people can see the utter ruthlessness and underhandedness of the Tories. Do you really believe that all the handouts Johnson is offering will be honoured? For God’s sake don't fall for the Tory and Media’s propaganda.

MaizieD Thu 28-Nov-19 10:19:01

Wasting your breath, grannypauline. The turkeys are really looking forward to Christmas.

M0nica Thu 28-Nov-19 10:24:15

Boring, the same sentiments have been repeated ad nauseam on every single political thread, and there are so many of them.

Does no one have anything original to say on the subject?

MaizieD Thu 28-Nov-19 10:33:34

Do you, MOnica?

Do you know what the propaganda playbook says? Repeat, repeat, repeat. It will be believed because it's said so often it must be true. Why do you think that the only thing Johnson can say without erring and umming is 'get Brexit done'?

Lovetopaint037 Thu 28-Nov-19 10:35:25

Yes Granny but the masses are hypnotised or so the media and press believe. On top of what has been said in your post my greatest fear is Johnson, the worst, most incompetent lying charlatan of a PM we have ever had. The NHS isn’t on the American table but now we know the pharmaceuticals are!!!We are getting “Brexit done” by leaving without a deal at the end of 2020. Oh!happy days! Cummins, Will have got what he wants. (He who isn’t a Tory and worked for so long in Russia.)

lemongrove Thu 28-Nov-19 10:35:57

It would appear not Monica

Thank you grannyp for that LP activist message from social media which we didn’t need.wink having heard it all before.
It may surprise you to learn that the UK isn’t made up solely of the rich and the poor.

Daisymae Thu 28-Nov-19 10:39:04

Totally agree. Get Brexit done is just a smokescreen for let us get our hands on the lolly. Johnson and his cronies don't give a fig about the general public, it's all about them and how much they are about to gain. You can hear them salivating.

varian Thu 28-Nov-19 10:45:33

Cummings & co got a lot of poor turkeys to believe their lies and vote for Xmas in 2016 but fortunately for them, it has been delayed.

Some of the same poor turkeys look likely to fall for Cumming's latest lie 'get brexit done'.

For their own sake, they need to be told the truth, before they hand Putin, Trump & co their best ever Xmas.

Urmstongran Thu 28-Nov-19 11:05:28

Many of the poorest in our society have had to compete with freedom of movement - it has been proven that it had driven wages down.

The tide has turned. Brexit is about to happen. Employers will have to look at home grown workers once again (about time) and offer apprenticeships instead of jumping on the lucrative (for bosses) of employing ready trained immigrants who didn’t demand higher wages.

Get. Brexit Done.
And see a surge in prosperity for the lower paid, instead of directing them to food banks and bewailing the shortcomings of Universal Credit.

Labour always like it better when people rely on the State. It’s in their DNA.

But Boris says ‘it’s time to level UP’ in our great country.

I’m with him.

MaizieD Thu 28-Nov-19 11:10:23

Many of the poorest in our society have had to compete with freedom of movement - it has been proven that it had driven wages down.

It actually hasn't, Ug but don't let facts get in the way of a nice mantra

Reality Check verdict: Current research suggests there was a small, negative impact on the wages of low-skilled workers, which was outweighed by other factors such as the impact of the financial crisis and rises in the minimum wage.

MaizieD Thu 28-Nov-19 11:12:46

And see a surge in prosperity for the lower paid, instead of directing them to food banks and bewailing the shortcomings of Universal Credit.

Perhaps you would like to explain exactly how this is going to happen?

grannypauline Thu 28-Nov-19 11:24:26

Cancel Trident

Hetty58 Thu 28-Nov-19 11:30:01

I, too would really like to know how a 'surge in prosperity' is planned!

Urmstongran Thu 28-Nov-19 11:34:44

I know I read an article about it MaizieD and it was by an expert - not just the the BBC has an opinion on this subject!

Mass immigration is likely to be holding back wages for those in direct competition for work, which is often those who are already on low pay – both UK-born and previous migrants. A 2015 Bank of England study found a negative impact on the wages of those in the lower skilled services sector in which millions of UK workers are employed

As always it depends which expert views one sides with!

You cannot say it’s rubbish though.

Chestnut Thu 28-Nov-19 11:42:10

Farage has often said he is the turkey voting for Christmas. He promises that if Brexit is delivered he will disappear and we'll not see him again. So if you hate Farage then there is the answer to your prayers. Get Brexit done!

Urmstongran Thu 28-Nov-19 11:43:45

“The UK, unlike the 19 Eurozone states remains a currency sovereign. It can borrow at fine rates on 20 year terms in its own currency, allowing infrastructure and industrial funding to generate new sources of growth; the City of London can pivot toward deep regulatory competition against the European Union and the significant fall in the currency provides the UK with the means to obtain a major competitive advantage in international markets.

This gives London the option of developing a major funded economic programme to offset the damage caused by the uncertainty of the Brexit vote. As a consequence, Britain could engage in negotiations over the next few years with the EU, with limited economic damage, whilst the economy maintains a stable level of economic growth.

British economic stability post the Brexit vote is a form of threat to the EU. The more stable the British economy is the more nationalist parties will use the Brexit vote as an argument for saying that there is nothing to fear from leaving the Union.”

This is from CIDOB - (Barcelona Centre for International Affairs) is an independent think tank based in Barcelona, devoted to the study and research of international issues. Its main areas of interest are international politics, conflicts and crises, global security, intercultural dynamics, migrations, development and Spanish foreign policy.

Urmstongran Thu 28-Nov-19 11:58:52


Have I given everyone something different to think about?

Or are you all furiously fact checking, only it’s gone strangely quiet all of a sudden (after the cut and thrust!)

Izabella Thu 28-Nov-19 12:02:24

You could go vegan.

MaizieD Thu 28-Nov-19 12:07:03

You could say who your expert is, Ug

I just picked the first result I saw and thought it likely to be trusted coming from the BBC grin

I could find some academic papers on the subject... but who reads academic papers..

I agree to an extent with your Barcelona think tank about government sources of finance, but I'm not sure how we solve the problem of the UK economy being mostly service based and the huge disruption to services that will be caused by Brexit.

Sir Ivan Rogers in his latest speech.


The implications of this for U.K. services firms, above all, is one of many dogs which has yet properly to bark in this process. But bark it will, when it becomes apparent to the private sector that continuities they wrongly thought were close to laws of nature will disappear at the end of 2020.

I find that firms are only now just waking up to the huge implications on professional mobility.

And much of the UK services sector still harbours hopes that, having essentially been forgotten or ignored by two successive Prime Ministers to date, their interests will, to some degree at least, be catered for in any FTA. I fear they will be sorely disappointed: because the EU has simply no intention of offering more here to an ex member than it does to other major third countries.

De facto, the last 2 U.K. Prime Ministers are arguing for a “no deal” on services.

And that’s on ALL services, not just financial services, on which the financial stability case for divergence is demonstrably stronger. We actually export far greater volumes of non financial services. And the EU is massively our biggest market for those services.

Ministers just do not ever want to tell businesses that is actually what they are doing, or tell the public why it’s a great idea.


You have to read the whole speech really...

And according to the trade experts I follow, selling services to the rest of the world is extremely difficult because they all have their own service industries to protect...

Urmstongran Thu 28-Nov-19 12:17:53

You could say who your expert is, Ug

I did. It’s CIDOB

And my other post indicated it was a statement from the BoE.

I’m just watching ‘Politics Live’ with AN in the chair.

Labour MP Lucy Powell is squirming.

It’s cringeworthy!

Urmstongran Thu 28-Nov-19 12:20:44

And according to the trade experts I follow, selling services to the rest of the world is extremely difficult because they all have their own service industries to protect...

Probably true MaizieD

But during a negotiation everything will be up for grabs! They might take on some of our services in exchange for our FISH for example!

Nothing will be ‘stand alone’.

Callistemon Thu 28-Nov-19 13:17:22

I am being rather pedantic here but is the title of the thread supposed to be:
Turkeys! Do not vote for Christmas!

Or as it states:
Turkeys do not vote for Christmas.

Is it meant to be advice or a statement of fact?

Punctuation matters
As in: let's eat Grandma
rather than: let's eat, Grandma

Chestnut Thu 28-Nov-19 14:40:15

Brilliant Callistemon! There is a thread for pedants, you'll enjoy yourself there.
I didn't know Christmas was up for a vote. Let's have a referendum.

Callistemon Thu 28-Nov-19 14:52:04


Well, honestly, I was confused
and I still am

But I think, if it is meant to be an order, then calling people Turkeys is just not on.

If it is not an order and just a statement it is rather meaningless, there is no point in saying it.

Opal Thu 28-Nov-19 15:20:31

Loving your work Urmstongran grin. I can hear the LP supporters' cogs working overtime ..........