John McDonnell - fee paying scholar to Marxist

There were two excellent girls' schools in the outer London borough where we lived, but very few girls I knew of managed to get a place at one of them.

We did move anyway to somewhere with a bog standard comprehensive school and absolutely no choice whatsoever.

exactly the case in Leicestershire, the first County to go fully Comprehensive and get rid of the 11+.

We were indeed 'criticised' by many neighbours, colleagues and friends - for 'sacrificing' our children to our principles and sending them to the local schools - unlike most of them, although we could have afforded it. It served them really really well.

If your child or grandchild needs an operation, but the NHS is in such a state that delay puts s/he in great pain or at risk of further deterioration, or worse- should you be blamed for paying to go private?

Absolutely not but some would deem it unethical jura

I have absolutely no argument with anyone who wants the best for their child - except those who try to prevent other parents doing the same.

and here is my point - are you supposed to watch your child suffer, be it for lack of healthcare in a critical situation, or because of their special needs, or devastating bullying - because of your principles?

Is it not possible to say - I am working like a Trojan to ensure good healthcare and education for all - but right NOW, my child needs this treatment, or to be moved away from bullying - and I will not let them suffer because others do. But I will fight, on and on, for this to be available to all?

Thank you once again MOnica for being the voice of reason. And for the fact that you ‘get’ the point of this thread of mine. You’ve nailed it!

(Your post at 16:45pm today).

And let's not forget that Attlee went to Haileybury (a proper posh school) and Oxford and had middle class parents. Wow!

growstuff
The difference between him and JMcD is that he didn’t try to hide the fact!
?

Apologies to GGmk3 and WWmk2 who thought this thread almost beneath contempt.

It seems it did have legs (after all!)

It will, and probably ought, to fizzle out now.

Thank you very much for joining in and for all your comments!

Is the fact that you think he tried to hide it that causes you such concern Urm?

If that’s the case, you feel the same level of concern at all politicians who you believe lie and hide things from the public? Is JMcD as bad as they come in your opinion, or are there others whose behaviour might be at the more severe end of the sliding scales of lies?

Urmstongran…..I think that private schools are money making businesses and should not have charity status, considering that public schools are cash strapped and suffering under the present government. At present, our local schools, I live in Berkshire, have had most music and drama removed from the curriculum. The local MP didn't even know this, and insisted they did still have 'the arts' in schools. His children have an extensive arts curriculum but then they go to a very expensive private school. I don't believe that state schools should offer a second class education, in the same way that I believe the NHS should offer the same great medicine as private hospitals. I don't believe in a two tier system, poor education and health for those without money. That isn't communism, that is fairness. To believe otherwise is elitism. Look to Scandinavia where they pay high taxes but private education is almost unheard of as the state education is excellent...as is health. Higher taxes, not lower taxes...and before you ask, we earned very good incomes and never employed accountants to reduce our taxes....we also never paid cash in hand as we believe we should all pay taxes...including those that own our right wing newspapers, who manipulate the British public but who pay no tax.

Before we go, I truly would like EVIDENCE that he tried to HIDE it. The fact he didn't shout it from the rooftops, does not mean he made a conscious and deliberate effort to conceal.

So, please.

I agree with everything Solonge has said. Can't add to it other than to say that my daughter has left teaching and says she will never return to it while there is a Conservative government.

There is no evidence he tried to hide it that's one of the falsehoods in the OP. The other is that he paid fees, his fees were paid but not by his family. Talk about biased and incorrect!! He wasn't there long anyway.
M0nica interesting that you consider yourself "state educated" because your educaion was LEA funded. If only every child could have that amount spent on them.

I've always disliked gossips and thus is all this is really.

Callistemon Is this the same St Olave's Grammar School which is so "excellent" that its headteacher was sacked for cheating?

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/nov/17/head-of-grammar-school-that-forced-out-a-level-students-resigns

I'd like to know how he "hid" it too. It hasn't been hidden since June 2017, so when did he lie or say he'd been to some other school?

ah well, patiently waiting for reply and evidence.

Urmstongran I'm still waiting for evidence that McDonnell tried to hide the fact that he went to a minor private school for two years.

I've never heard anybody claim that Attlee was less of a socialist because the school he attended really is "posh". I haven't a clue whether Attlee advertised the fact he went to an independent school or whether he tried to hide it. More than likely, it didn't actually matter, just as McDonnell's education is irrelevant. It's just dragging up muck by the Sun and the Tory smear-mongerers.

How about discussing important stuff like policies?

jura A relative of mine was a schools inspector in Leicestershire. The pressure to go completely comprehensive came from the sharp-elbowed middle classes, who didn't want their offspring to go to secondary moderns because there weren't enough grammar school places for those who wanted them.

The reason the inner London children gained places in outer London schools was because they were bright. Fortunately, inner London now has some high-achieving secondary schools and parents of bright children don't have to make the choice between a sink inner city school and a leafy outer London school.

yes, very aware. There never has been sufficient Grammar School places - not in Leicestershire, not anywhere else.
My OH, the child of immigrants- moved primary schools 6 times - and no money for private coaching or support either. How he managed to get in is a miracle- and how he repaid 1000x over with his work.

I imagine there are many here who just failed to get in to Grammar School as they just failed the 11+ and never were allowed to achieve their dream or potential- because of a day or two at the age of 11. By the time I qualified as a teacher, and my kids went to secondary school- the Comprehensive system was well organised and working really well, overall.

Trisher Dispel all your fabtasies of today's private schools Back in the 1950s, there was very little difference between private or state schools. The education I received was no better than the local state grammar school, the facilities and class size were much the same. 2 playing fields used for hockey in winter and tennis or athletics in the summe The very small ill-equipped gym had to be used as a classroom when the cohort of 1947 came through and the boarding side, never very large was being rapidly run down so that dormitories could be turned into classrooms. Most boarders were forces children, with a few others whose father's jobs took them overseas to live.

I spent my first two terms at grammar school in an army grammar school in Singapore and the convent facilities were similar. Given how straitened life was in the 1950s, I doubt my school place cost anymore than if I had gone to a a LA owned and funded school. As far as I know the school actually had very few fee paying pupils. There were none in my class.

I doubt John McDonnell's experience was any different than mine.

Private schools only started flourishing in the late 1970s/1980s and getting the extra facilities they have today. Up until then wartime conditions and restrictions meant neither parents or schools had the wherewithal to finance them.

correct, but only for the middle classes. I have several relatives who were at top public schools, as boarders, from the age of 5, in the 40s and 50s.

Yes, jura the top public schools were something else. Many of the private schools which existed in the 1940s and 1950s have now closed. In those days, there were very few schools offering anything beyond an elementary education. If parents wanted their children to learn anything beyond the 3Rs, RE and handiwork, they had to send their children to private schools. That's why the 1944 Education Act made such a big difference to people's lives. For the first time, one couldn't just buy a proper secondary education and it gave poorer children opportunities. The genuine public schools were in an entirely different league - and still are. They cost an arm and a leg (and probably a funny handshake), but McDonnell didn't go to one of those.

I'm still waiting for some evidence that he hid his educational background.

Agreed, was responding to Monica's last paragraph.

growstuff I know nothing about St Olave's apart from Harriet H sending her son there.

growstuff that is not true about Inner London pupils gaining places at outer London borough schools because they were brighter.

It was a case of knowing the system and having sharp elbows.

Concrete does not make a school bad, leafiness does not a good school make!

Hmm … I guess it depends. I did teacher training in SE London/Kent and certainly the Kent grammar schools were full of London children who had passed the 11+. Many of the inner London schools at the time were dire, partly because they were left with children who had not passed the 11+ or whose parents could not afford private education.

Until a few years ago, the Chelmsford grammar schools had London children. The schools have in the last few years changed the admissions criteria, so that places are reserved for more local children. The Kingston grammar schools also have children from inner London.

Even if parents have sharp elbows and know the system, their children don't pass the 11+ if they're not bright.

St Olave's expelled 74 sixth form pupils within a few years because they were allegedly underachieving. Even though they were high-achieving pupils, St Olave's expelled them because they would have brought down the average A level score.