Surprised about LibDems

I agree with you janeainsworth. Ironically, Jo Swinson has more front bench experience than either Johnson or Corbyn.

She would back Johnson

@MikeDaviesLab

Jo Swinson: “The most sensible position to put to the public, would be to put Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal to the public against the idea of remaining.”

Straight from the horses mouth: #VoteLibDemGetTory

??Tory / Lib Dem Hard Brexit vs Remain

♦️Labour soft Brexit vs Remain

twitter.com/MikeDaviesLab/status/1202376034663960576?s=20

That makes sense to me. Have a second referendum with two choices:

1) The current withdrawal agreement and all the implications, as we now know them;
2) Remain.

If it were to happen and people still voted to accept the WA, there would be no further argument. Of course, Johnson doesn't want that because there's a good chance that "Remain" would win.

IMO it won't be a choice between a "Labour soft Brexit" and Remain, because Labour doesn't stand much chance of getting a majority.

However, there's a very good chance that we'll end up with another hung parliament and the government could be forced to hold a second referendum.

PS. If the country were to choose to remain, the first priority would need to be to understand why people voted Leave and to formulate policy to address some of the grievances. I can't see a Johnson-led government doing that. In fact, I can't see Johnson still being PM by the end of 2020 (but that's my opinion and I don't have a crystal ball).

Grany I've re-read your post a number of times and I still don't see how that Tweet shows that Swinson would back Johnson.

BTW In some seats, the sensible thing to do is to vote LibDem, if you don't want a Conservative MP.

In York Outer the LibDems won 10% of the vote at the last election and the only party that can unseat the useless Tory incumbent is Labour, but the LibDems keep putting out dodgy bar charts claiming that they can win the seat. The result will inevitably be that the Tory will win because of the split opposition vote.

In Stroud, David Drew, the Labour MP, who has a very small majority, is standing against a Tory and a member of the Green Party. The Lib Dems have not put up a candidate but are actively encouraging people to support the Green party.

Perhaps Swinston is thinking that if the Tories win this election she will be asked to jump into bed with them again. Judging by her voting record, she seems pretty right wing and half her MPs are ex-Tory.

I checked a tactical vote site and it appears most say if you don’t want Boris vote labour, apart from very few places which recommend LIb Dems. These are St Albans, Winchester, places in Surrey, Esher etc. Best check yourselves.sorry can’t do links..,.,
I was going to vote LD but changed my mind because they were so far behind the two major parties and a LD vote would be wasted where I live. A labour one too probably, as despite it being a poorish area, we have a tory MP, but it stands a better chance so that’s the way I will go.

I believe that the are many remain supporters such as myself that feel the present electorate cannot just disregard the 2016 referendum result. Therefore, the LibDem position of carrying out the above even by way of General Election is not a tolerable position.

The Labour Party policy of becoming the party of government through election and then holding a second Referendum is the only correct and democratic stance for those that wish to change that Referendum result.

If you lived in Richmond Park, where the Conservatives had a majority of 45 over the LibDems in the last election, who would you vote for Grandad1943?

5,773 voted Labour in 2017. If the Labour voters grit their teeth and vote LibDem, there could be one fewer Conservatives and make it more likely that there would be a Labour government.

Would you still vote with your conscience?

PS. The LibDems won't win the election and won't be in a position to revoke Article 50, but they'd be dishonest if they didn't spell out their ideal outcome. The UK's adversarial form of government really doesn't cope well with compromises.

Labour is highly unlikely to win either. I think the best Labour and the LibDems can hope for is the opportunity for some kind of arrangement, with the help of the Greens, SNP and Plaid. The LibDems are trying to win over Tory voters, so would be foolish to admit that a vote for them would be a vote for a Labour government. Labour needs LibDem help, if it's going to be in government.

PPS. And let's not forget Scotland!

Half of LibDem MPs are not ex-Tory.

Would love to support them, Am politically moderate/centrist. But they hate women so can't.

I am also unhappy with them making a GENERAL election about one issue (Brexit)

I'm pretty sure that it was the rise in popularity of the LibDems because of their stance on Brexit that finally made the Labour Party get off the fence and, at least agree to a vote on the final deal. Without the LibDems pushing for one Labour would either be a Brexit supporting party or a who knows what party.

I think people have long memories and some will never forgive the LibDems for their complicity in supporting Tory Austerity and student funding.

The Labour party's collective amnesia about what the last Labour government under Blair/Brown was like, is so total it could be diagnosed as dementia.

And the Conservatives are campaigning as if the last ten years have been nothing to do with them, and it seems to be working ….

Jo Swinson is a plausible enough leader but her message has just not gained appeal, let’s face it a Corbyn led government propped up by SNP, Libdems and other odds and sods wouldn’t last 6 months.
My own opinion is that the majority are sick of Brexit and just want to get it over, whatever the consequences, the best way forward is to vote for Boris. Although the leave/remain share of the vote in percentage terms is quite close, translate that into seats won, the Tories get a majority.

The present Labour Party Brexit policy was set by the lay delegates to its annual conference nearly eighteen months ago. That policy is, and always has been, a General Election first then a second referendum.

No other political party, media pressure or individuals have changed that policy, and Labour is the only party to have possessed a consistent stance throughout the last two years.

The Lib Dems supported a second referendum, but then changed their minds on that and became the revoke party.

The ERG/Tory party stated we would leave in March this year, then we would be leaving in October this year and now possibly in January next year. The forgoing chaos for the country was brought about simply because the Tory Party and their paid help in the House of Commons, the DUP, could agree on nothing at all on Brexit among themselves

Therefore, and as stated, Labour has been the only party in Parliament to have maintained a consistent stance on Brexit and that has been due to the decision it's lay members made in 2017.

I thought that last time there was an election AllTheLs but it didn't happen.

Perhaps they will do better this time. I think they need to get their policies across rather than just remaining in the EU (yes, we know!) and Swinson thinking she has a chance of being PM (no she doesn't).

Concentrate on getting the message across about social care etc.

The Lib Dems supported a second referendum, but then changed their minds on that and became the revoke party.
and some of us have not forgotten that they used to be the party advocating a referendum.

I feel that the outcome of this election will be decided in the leave voting traditional Labour heartlands of the North of England. If those constituencies decide to place leaving the EU above all else and in that vote Tory then Johnson could win the election with an overall majority in Parliament.

However, if those constituencies (as a number of opinion polls are predicting) decide that the NHS, Education and Welfare etc has to be their first priority and poll for Labour then once again a hung parliament will be the result.

Indeed we could even see a Labour SNP coalition government, as it is quite likely that Labour will take a few seats from the Tories in the London/South East of England.

'Therefore, and as stated, Labour has been the only party in Parliament to have maintained a consistent stance on Brexit and that has been due to the decision it's lay members made in 2017'. Well, I've been a Labour voter all of my life and until the last few weeks I didn't have a clue what their policy regarding Brexit was as one member would say one thing and another would say something completely different. Whenever one of them has said 'the Labour position on Brexit is perfectly clear' me and my partner have laughed and people interviewing them have laughed also.

….'and some of us have not forgotten that they used to be the party advocating a referendum'...however they have always been staunchly for remaining in the EU.

I can never forgive the LibDems for giving the tories the chance to govern.

Jo Swinson even appeared proud of what was achieved by the ConDems.

They sold their souls for a ministerial car.

Labaik in regard to your post @20:27 today, the members of the Parliamentary Labour Party argued among themselves what the Parties Brexit policy "should be". However, as stated in my earlier post in this thread the " General Election First policy" followed by a second referendum was set by the Lay Members at its Annual Delegate Conference in 2017.

That policy could never be changed by any group of Labour MPs, and should the party lose the forthcoming General Election it will be interesting to see what happens to those MPs should they still retain their seats in the House of Commons.

Indeed, it will be interesting to witness what the broader Labour Movement decides should happen to the Parliamentary Labour Party as a whole should it do Badly in this election.

My guess would be they will "pull the plug on it" and launch a new socialist party in Britain.

Funny how months ago in the indicative votes in the HoC a second referendum didn’t cut the mustard ....