Surprised about LibDems

Urmstongran, the Tory Party and their paid doormat help in the form of the DUP could have brought forward and had any bill passed by the House of Commons if they could have agreed anything among themselves in regard to Brexit.

Laibak why would a party always staunchly for remaining in the EU demand a referendum (2011?)?
Surely they would have been happy with the status quo and not wish to even contemplate the thought that a referendum could result in a leave result?

Yes, agreed Grandad1943 but the point was, the Tory party were split over Brexit - look at the antics of Grieve, Hammond, Liddington, Hammond etc.

So because under Theresa May it was such a muddle (Brexit being led by a Remainer with Ollie Robbins as her wingman and a more than Remainer Cabinet, amendments and thwarting tactics ruled.

Indicative votes amongst the MP’s revealed they themselves (ie the whole 650 of them) could not find a majority for anything! If I remember correctly they had about 6 indicative votes “CLEAR THE LOBBY” yelled Bercow.

And what I’m saying is a second referendum wasn’t popular then either!

But didn't some Labour MP's have to leave the party because they wanted another referendum eg Own Smith?

IMO Jo Swinson seriously irritated a lot of women by her use of the term CIS women, when referring to adult biological females.

Her talk of being PM - as if it was a serious possibility - was IMO ill advised , too. Made her sound deluded.

I dare say the LD candidate will still make it in this comstituency though - she lost by only about 50 votes last time.

It's just a bit of a shame that our sitting MP (Con) isn't a complete arse that we'd love to see the back of. Although I certainly don't agree with him on everything he's actually a very good and active constituency MP

Urmstongran, a second referendum was not popular with a large number of Labour MPs simply because the official party policy on Brexit was to pursue a General Election as first priority and then to bring forward a second referendum.

Those Labour MPs that did not follow that policy were in fact voting against what the lay members had voted for at the Annual Delegate Conference in 2017. However, many of those Labour Party MPs supporting solely a second referendum as the way forward thought they had far better wisdom than those factory, warehouse and shop workers that set the General Election First policy.

However, in the end, what did the whole of Parliament vote for as a resolution to the Brexit crisis.....a General Election.

In my view, all those Labour MPs that defied the Election first policy and those Lay Delegates of whom so many of took a week out of their annual holidays to attend that conference should be kicked out of the party at the very first instance available.

Callistemon; that I don't understand either. The fact is that I, along with most people I know never thought a great deal about our EU membership until 2016 so all of the calls for a referendum went way above my head. And we are a family that discuss politics on a regular basis; always watched QT until it became toxic. It was obviously an elephant in the room that I didn't ignore, I just never saw it! I will ask questions but everyone is so busy election wise I may not get answers for a while. All I know is that I've felt politically homeless for a while and I'm comfortable with our local LibDem' ers; they all seem to share my feelings about what I want for the country. I was never left wing enough for our local Labour Party [which isn't saying that everyone in Labour is extreme left wing] but may, at some point, rejoin. I just hate how tribal it has all become . And what I feel about Johnson, Gove and Rees Mogg isn't repeatable....

'In my view, all those Labour MPs that defied the Election first policy and those Lay Delegates of whom so many of took a week out of their annual holidays to attend that conference should be kicked out of the party at the very first instance '...I thought some of the voting was a bit confused at the time. And the Labour MP's that had to go were the ones that seemed to represent me. I'm not the only Labour Party member that has left because they felt unrepresented by the party regarding Brexit. And that saddens me beyond belief.

I found Rees Mogg - he was on the telly this evening!

I didn't know Jo Swinson had used the term CIS women, Witzend. She really is not very appealing to many voters.
I think our local candidate is good but she probably will not get anywhere near.
It's been Tory/Labour/Tory here for years so should be interesting.

I see Rees Mogg's sister has jumped ship...

Yes, did she leave the party or did the party leave her?

I guess UKIP morphed into the Brexit party and they have morphed into the Conservatives, so they have outlived their use for her.

In what context did Swinson use the term CIS women? Which women found it offensive and why?

Grandad I doubt very much if the majority of people outside quite a small circle care one jot for internal Labour squabbles and/or the social class of those making policies.

I'm afraid that I, for one, don't care much for a political party where only the views of "factory, warehouse and shop workers" matter. That sounds seriously Stalinist.

I can't imagine what 'CIS' stands for ...? Help, anyone?

By saying that they would revoke Article 50, the Lib Dems, have surely lost a lot of voters. Yes, they may well have gained some, but not all LD members are remainers.

And I find it highly arrogant for them to just totally ignore what the majority of the UK voted for!

Cisgender (sometimes cissexual, often abbreviated to simply cis) is a term for people whose gender identity matches the sex that they were assigned at birth. For example, someone who identifies as a woman and was assigned female at birth is a cisgender woman. (Wiki) I honestly don't see how or why it's offensive.

The vast majority of LibDem voters support Remain. I'm afraid I don't see why it's arrogant. That's what they truly believe (so do I) that the UK already has the best deal with the EU. They would be lying if they said otherwise. What about the 16,141,241 people who voted to remain? Were you honestly hoping they'd just shut up and go away? What plans do those who voted to leave have for the people with different opinions and interests?

It has been both a very negative and very personal election with the Brexit Tory Party depending on lies rather than facts. It's surprising anyone has any faith left in anything that is said.

Growstuff Quote [ I am afraid that I, for one, don't care much for a political party where only the views of "factory, warehouse and shop workers" matter. That sounds seriously Stalinist.] End Quote.

Growstuff, those factory workers, shop workers etc are people who are active members of the Labour movement who outside of their working lives regularly attend the Branch, District and Regional meetings of the organisations they have been elected to represent within the broader labour movement.

They are the also the persons that are often on zero-hours employment contracts or forced to work on Gig Economy terms of employment or are only too willing to speak out in support of those that are. It was persons such as the above that gained election to attend the 2017 Labour Movement Delegate Conference and set the present Parliamentary Labour Party policy on Brexit. Such persons then reaffirmed that same policy at this year's Delegate Conference making Labour the only party in the House of Commons with such a consistent policy on Brexit.

Therefore if on this forum speaking out in support of factory workers, shop workers and distribution centre workers along with many others within the Labour oganisation gets me ridiculously labelled as someone with "Stalinist" views, I am only too happy to accept that label.

The above people are those that have fought to see their wishes prevail within the Labour Movement and are not the type of people to just "throw in the towel" when things do not go their way. They are also activists in the truest sense of the word and not persons who just post on social media sites groaning about the state of British politics and the organisations within it, for that has never changed anything.

Cisgender, apparently I am a “cis man” - I was born male and still live life as a male. Its a dangerous term to use publicly because it may infer that a transgender identity is inferior.

If Jo Swinson did use that term it would depend on the context but probably did her no favours, there are plenty of people that disagree with the present high profile of trans issues.

Growstuff Which women found it offensive and why?
Rather off-topic now, and I may have got this completely wrong but I think the women who, by some people, are derisively referred to as TERFs (trans-exclusionary radical feminists) find it offensive because they think that women who were born female ie with vaginas, shouldn’t have to have a label that distinguishes them from women who have penises and facial hair.

Do men get "Man" changed, and offended by being referred to as Cis Men, ejaculators and non-women?

A former Tory GP, rape crisis charity leadership and now LD appeared on Newsnight and contradicted herself.

Sarah Wollaston wants any man to self identify as a woman - so he can have a new clean DBS, New NHS medical record, new birth certificate and rights of women. These men will go through zero checks and yet Sarah herself will not accept all men without exception are women - as per Stonewall demands and self identification laws she wants to vote in.

Jo Swindon is different Jo believes the 90% penis owners saying that they are women own a female penis which has always been female, along with believing she's our next Prime Minister.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=AV_ua8BFsdQ

Tune into Woman's hour for more from Jo telling women to be kind and give away their rights, truth, safety, privacy and dignity.

"What sort of feminist are you, Jo Swinson?" A man's sexual rights activist in sheepskin?

mobile.twitter.com/JeanHatchet/status/1202625641360871424

You can't have a GE campaign without £££!