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Political stereotyping

(62 Posts)
kittylester Wed 11-Dec-19 15:49:16

I know I'm asking for a tirade but...

Why are people who vote Tory regularly described as 'the haves' as though that is somehow something to be ashamed of and something that makes us unaware of the world around us?

We are fairly 'comfortably off' because DH worked hard till he was 71. Previously, he had worked hard at school and university. But I bet that applies to a fair few labour voters on here so why are we derided for it?

We just happen to think that the Tory way forward is better for the country.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 11-Dec-19 15:54:12

kitty I’m not sure they are anymore tbh.

It seems the middle classes particularly women are leaving the Tories.

It seems the typical Tory voter now is the “have nots” the working classes particularly in the north

You are Custer’s last stand?

kittylester Wed 11-Dec-19 16:02:47

There are often snidey references to 'the haves' here on gn whitewave, you must see them.

The 'middle class' women of my acquaintance are not leaving the Tories.

And, what is 'middle class' now? I thought that was an outdated term now.

jura2 Wed 11-Dec-19 16:07:22

We are in more or less the same position I imagine- yes, lots of hard work, me too as I went to Uni when youngest started school then taught full time.

Personally, it is not about 'the haves' - but about attitudes towards those who, somehow, didn't manage to do so well, fallen on bad times, been very unlucky, been at the wrong place at the wrong time.

It is perfectly possible to 'have' and to 'care' too ...sadly we know too many who don't- out of sight, out of mind ...

Luckygirl Wed 11-Dec-19 16:09:14

I think it is because the Tory politicians are very definitely "the haves." That does not mean to say that they do not receive support from "have nots" or indeed from "haves" who have because they have worked hard. The likes of BJ and J R-M - and indeed my local sitting (or currently hovering!) Tory MP - are cases in point. There is a lot of evidence that Tory MPs are among the privileged few in their background.

I have just read a fascinating book called "Why do we get the wrong politicians?" by Isabel Hardman and she has looked at the backgrounds of many MPs and concludes that some of the bad legislation we get is caused by their ignorance of the lives led by the many.

jura2 Wed 11-Dec-19 16:10:33

And we just happen to think that the Tory way, à la Johnson and ERG, is definitely NOT the best way forward for our country, and neither is No Deal. So it is possible to be fairly well off and NOT be a Conservative.

kittylester Wed 11-Dec-19 16:14:34

So, jura, the people who 'care' are the ones who vote Labour. Tory voters don't - is that what you are saying?

Riverwalk Wed 11-Dec-19 16:15:40

I think there will always be political stereotyping - look how often comfortably-off celebrities/public figures are derided as being luvvies or champagne socialists if they support Labour.

But Brexit has muddied the waters a bit though!

Whitewavemark2 Wed 11-Dec-19 16:19:16

No it isn’t out of date it is a useful tool when identifying a group of people with particular values etc.

Most of the middle class leaving the Tories are in the south east. That’s why you aren’t so aware of the phenomenon.

My middle class group of friends who vote Tory are amazing in their evaluation of Johnson. I never expected to hear such criticism. It seems that they can’t stomach his morality and racism. Well tbh there seems a lot they can’t stomach.

jura2 Wed 11-Dec-19 16:19:44

Not necessarily Labour - and not necessarily always- but in this case, with Johnson and ERG's record, No Deal, links to Trump and Russians, the NHS, the environment, education, police, fire service, etc- I am afraid there is NO escaping that, sorry. I could NOT vote Tory currently, and I know many many Cons who feel the same now.

knickas63 Wed 11-Dec-19 16:22:32

I was interested in this and have looked at the demographics. The Tory voter falls into 2 'types' usually. Peopel who have a reasonable amount of money and come from a more privileged background - private school etc, and those who I thinkof as White Van man. the first find it difficult to see beyond their privileged bubble, and like thing to stay the same as they are fine thank you, and the second camp have less education, and are convinced the world is out to take what is theirs, that anyone who hasn't done as they have are lazy shirkers or foreigners and are obsessed with Brexit.

Labour votes are also in two camps. Educated middle class professionals who interact with and understand how the underclass has fared and grown, and think our mindset needs to change and the militant poor who are angry and want change.

Oddly enough - as far as I can see a lot of the 'benefit scroungers' that so many right wing papers insist are everywhere and crippling us as usually uneducated Tory voters.

jura2 Wed 11-Dec-19 16:25:54

Even Alan Duncan, Stephen Dorrell and now Nicky Morgan - understand how dangerous Johnson and ERG are, and No Deal.

kittylester Wed 11-Dec-19 16:35:26

And your post knickas confirms the prejudiced thinking of the left!

Middle class (for want of a better term) Tories do not interact with the 'underclass' (what a dreadful term) or they would vote Labour, is that what you are saying?

jura2 Wed 11-Dec-19 16:39:28

Well, the education of the chidren in the UK separates them to often, and so do the 'estate' style housing system- where similar types of families, with similar incomes and lifestyle live together without really knowing what it is like for others- in any direction.

kittylester Wed 11-Dec-19 16:49:40

People dont live in a bubble jura or go around wearing blinkers. That is blinkered thinking.

Luckygirl Wed 11-Dec-19 16:50:53

In this election for me it is not about political "wings" - right or left - but about honesty and integrity, both of which matter to me.

I think both parties (and particularly their leaders) certainly fail this test today; but the most likely outcome at the moment is a small Tory majority and as BJ is so deeply lacking in integrity, my vote will go to whoever in this constituency stands the greatest chance of toppling the Tory - thus hopefully clipping BJ's wings.

I do have to say that the evidence of my eyes and ears tells me that a grasp of the reality of the lives of those at the bottom of the heap seems sorely lacking amongst Tory MPs. Universal Credit is a case in point - how did they think financially poor people were going to survive the 5 week wait for the benefit to kick in? This legislation is simply based on ignorance - ignorance by those who are comfortably off about those who are seriously poor. That such ignorance became enshrined in law is very worrying indeed.

Anniebach Wed 11-Dec-19 16:59:21

The class war still, it disgusts me.

As for middle class ! Voters criticising Johnson, many, many life long labour voters are criticising Corbyn.

MaizieD Wed 11-Dec-19 17:19:26

Why are people who vote Tory regularly described as 'the haves'

Are you referring to this happening on Gnet or in the country at large?

Because if it's Gnet I don't recall seeing it used at all (though perhaps I'm wrong and you could give me some examples, kitty?)

I used the term a day or two ago but it had nothing at all to do with political stereotyping, it merely described the situation in the population when some people 'have' and some don't.

No it isn’t out of date it is a useful tool when identifying a group of people with particular values etc.

I would disagree with you there, Whitewave. I don't think it says anything about a group of people's 'values'; it just describes their economic status. To use it in any other way is badly out of date...

It clearly touches a nerve in some quarters, though. hmm

kittylester Wed 11-Dec-19 17:25:27

It does touch a nerve in this quarter, maizie and shows a very prejudiced attitude in the people using such terms. I might be a 'have' and 'middle class' but that doesnt make me thick or thoughtless!

I could say all labour voters are communists or trots which would be equally wrong.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 11-Dec-19 17:26:27

Happy to be corrected maizie providing you go onto the Election thread and send a complaint to the electoral commission.

Fair swaps?

Callistemon Wed 11-Dec-19 17:27:00

Personally, it is not about 'the haves' - but about attitudes towards those who, somehow, didn't manage to do so well, fallen on bad times, been very unlucky, been at the wrong place at the wrong time.

My MIL didn't manage to do so well, having fallen on hard times, been very unlucky, having two DHs who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, either killed in the war or died too young from effects of war.

She was a have not as described on GN and a staunch Tory voter all her life.

MaizieD Wed 11-Dec-19 17:29:09

I trust that you are not accusing me of being prejudiced, kitty?

Because if you are, that is slanderous...

I have explained why I used the term, once, and it had nothing to do with political stereotyping.

Ilovecheese Wed 11-Dec-19 17:30:45

Luckygirl is right about universal credit. To imagine that every family has the resources to live for 5 weeks without any income does show an ignorance of so many ordinary people's lives.
This sort of ignorance does not lead to good policy decisions.

lemongrove Wed 11-Dec-19 17:39:12 are whistling in the wind with this.
Anyone on GN who says they will vote Conservative is regularly castigated as uncaring and posts usually start and end with things along the lines of ‘how can you see people dying and children hungry’( you would think we were Syria)
Or ‘shame on you’ ( that’s a favourite) or ‘only heartless Tories
Blah blah’.
I think some don’t engage the brain before banging out their comments on how they see Conservative voters.
Don’t let it bother you, it’s not ( thankfully) real life, and to paraphrase something that some are fond of saying : it says more about them than it does you.?

jura2 Wed 11-Dec-19 17:45:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.