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Political stereotyping

(63 Posts)
kittylester Wed 11-Dec-19 15:49:16

I know I'm asking for a tirade but...

Why are people who vote Tory regularly described as 'the haves' as though that is somehow something to be ashamed of and something that makes us unaware of the world around us?

We are fairly 'comfortably off' because DH worked hard till he was 71. Previously, he had worked hard at school and university. But I bet that applies to a fair few labour voters on here so why are we derided for it?

We just happen to think that the Tory way forward is better for the country.

TerriBull Fri 13-Dec-19 13:19:52

I think "the stereotyped" know exactly who is doing the stereotyping, Steve Coogan was on something or other the other day telling an interviewer that his persona "Alan Partridge" would be a Tory because like those voters he was pretty thick. Therein lies the problem, maybe certain personalities who live in the "Twitter/c'leb" vacuum do much damage to the parties they seek to promote by their overt derision of those who don't share their point of view.

Callistemon Fri 13-Dec-19 09:53:52

Comprehensive school kids, people who live on estates, white van man, privately educated Tories

My word, the stereotypes come thick and fast on this thread!

merlotgran Fri 13-Dec-19 09:44:58

Estate style housing system?? Is that only in Britain??

We can't all live in the Swiss mountains, jura

You really are a fearful snob sometimes.

Missfoodlove Fri 13-Dec-19 09:39:42

We talk about the” haves and have nots” but what about those that just feel entitled?
My work brings me into contact with so many of these people.

NannyJan53 Fri 13-Dec-19 09:37:10

How anyone could vote for the Tories based on their record in Government the last 10 years is beyond me.

Callistemon Fri 13-Dec-19 09:22:48

Sorry, stiff fingers this morning

Then the site crashed

Callistemon Fri 13-Dec-19 09:13:25

I don't believe in stereotypes
I do know that Labour voters are not lazy chavs

I never said that confused

Poor you, living amongst all those bigots.

BlueBelle Fri 13-Dec-19 08:51:56

I have a Tory friend, yes, just the one, he too was upset by last nights vote he has been a local counsellor and strangely to me (we never talk politics) he told me he doesn’t recognise his own party he will always be a Tory but he is a Tory with a social conscientious (his words) and can’t abide the far right that has claimed the Conservatives
I will always be Labour but can’t abide the hard left so in a way we were almost agreeing and how strange is that
after talking last night I felt a glimmer of hope but not sure it ll come about soon enough for my life to be soothed

I guess it’s got to get a lot worse before it gets better
How much have we got to lose first Europe then Scotland
and NI
Sad sad times

knickas63 Fri 13-Dec-19 08:36:03

@callistemon - becuase those are the people I am surrounded with in my everyday life. I love some of them dearly - but they are quite ignorant, never look further then the headlines, never looked furthering their knowledge. All pretty well off and yes - hard workers, but very blinkered. Very much the I'm alright Jack types when it comes to politics. They truly believe that people on benfits - of anytype - are lazy. That no immigrant or foreigner is welcome and that they want to return to good ol d Britain. White Van man -is a euphemism for the modern working class. Very few actually drive a white van - quite a few started that way though. My examples come from looking up the demographics of typical voters. I wanted to prove tha tyour average Labour voter isn't a lazy chav, and that the average Tory voter isn't from the blue rinse brigade. That a lot of 'Haves' would like to see an end to the appaling numbers of 'have nots', and that perversly, a large no of 'have nots' blame it on everything but themselves or the Torys.

growstuff Thu 12-Dec-19 13:23:25

I've just spent twenty minutes reading through some threads. I would say there are very definite political stereotypes which have a weak link with "class" or even wealth. hmm

GracesGranMK3 Thu 12-Dec-19 10:25:30

I think both the words "middle-class" and "have's" are both outdated and may be a symptom of the age group on here. Age may also be a reason why what some perceive as middle-class women" are not leaving the Tories.

There is a shift in who the parties are appealing to and who they are attempting to appeal to. The Brexit-Tories need to appeal to the lower-income pro Brexiteers. They decided to only offer one thing in this election so their votes must come from people who voted Brexit and, as we know these are generally lower-income, less educated. The very people the Labour Party would once have appealed to.

The Labour Party, which is offering policies closer to those of the Nordic countries, is appealing to the middle-income, better educated and appealing to proportionately more women than men in that group.

Both are trying to appeal to "Generation Rent", the 18 to 34-year-olds but I am not sure they really understand them. Perhaps the LP has an advantage in that a lot of them joined prior to the last election.

We have so many more socio-economic definitions that the old ones seem destined for the scrap heap.

MaizieD Thu 12-Dec-19 10:22:54

I have several Tory voting friends and they are the epitome of kindness to me; but there seems to be a yawning gap in their thinking when they refer to government activity.

This is why I keep saying that politics is about everyday life. There is a huge disconnect between people's interactions with their friends and families and their inability to understand how their political choices affect every area of daily life.

jura2 Thu 12-Dec-19 10:12:46

Exactly Lucky- and the assumption that those who dispair with the politics and tactics of Johnson and teh ERG, are Reds under the bed and green eyed 'have nots and downs and outs' - is just so offensive and so wrong too.

Luckygirl Thu 12-Dec-19 10:06:31

The legislation and policies of this Tory government betray their lack of understanding of the lives that many people are forced to lead. This is the evidence that we can all see before us. None of their policies have been targeted at those who need our help and support: universal credit, austerity, underfunding of public services, killing off Sure Start - it is all there for all to see.

Political dogma as driven their agenda, and an absence of concern for the underdog that borders on sheer cruelty.

This is why people are tempted to label Tory voters in a pejorative way, because their votes imply that they are happy with what this government has done to people at the bottom of the heap and they would like to see more of the same.

I have several Tory voting friends and they are the epitome of kindness to me; but there seems to be a yawning gap in their thinking when they refer to government activity.

The fact that the Tories are now on a spending spree is not the least impressive - they are simply proposing (not promising) to try and clear up some of the mess that THEY have created.

EI4G Thu 12-Dec-19 06:36:57

Yes, I agree the Tory way forward is always better for the 'haves' but it doesn't mean that it is better for the country.

The 'country' is not some abstract term. It is made up of 4 million children in poverty, and parents having to use food banks. Knife crime and drug crime at an all time high because the Tory's cut 20,000 police from our streets. Public services cut to the bone, which leaves the haves ok because they can access private services if they need too. Our children leaving university with debt they will never clear and a housing market beyond their reach. All this and our National Debt has still doubled.
Yes, I would be considered a 'have' but I want the rest of society Haves' also. And the one thing that stops that happening is Tory ideology. The Tory Government of the last ten years has brought our country to its Knees. No more of the same for me.

love0c Thu 12-Dec-19 06:34:57

I am not sure? I had a conversation with my son last night on the phone. He was determined to talk politics. He abused me and my husband for voting Tory, He is voting Labour. I said he was entitled to vote for who he wanted. He certainly thinks we are the 'haves' and he is a 'doesn't have'. He can not see that we have because we worked at saving to get a house. We did not go out for over 18 months so we could save. My son and his wife gave up teaching jobs to travel at a cost of £30,000. He could have put that towards a mortgage. They constantly eat out and think nothing of having a few drinks out. We took a picnic. The latest is he is confused as to why he did not get a months pay when he took a month out as paternity leave. He buys expensive clothes for himself. He questions us why he can not afford a house with a garden so our two gc can play out. Unfortunately my son and DIL think everybody else should pay for their things. He did not learn this from me and my husband.

kittylester Thu 12-Dec-19 06:02:07

My point about my dh having worked hard was meant to press home the point that we didnt inherent much apart from a bit of brown furniture not that we were somehow different from anyone else.

growstuff Thu 12-Dec-19 00:01:38

Presumably, yes. I've seen the figure before, so I assume it's true.

Why do some people always seem to assume that people who claim benefits are not hardworking and sensible?

Callistemon Wed 11-Dec-19 23:36:32

I think it's true, the old social grading system is out of date and irrelevant now.

Callistemon Wed 11-Dec-19 23:31:23

20%? does that amount include the value of their family home?

growstuff Wed 11-Dec-19 23:28:56

There was an article in yesterday's Guardian about the way that the old class labels don't fit today's population. The author claims that age is a more important deciding factor in the way people vote than traditional class or wealth.

By the way, the "haves" are generally the more elderly. 20% of baby boomers are millionaires, although 36% of pensioners in private rented accommodation are in poverty.

Doodle Wed 11-Dec-19 23:22:50

kitty you are right. I am fed up of being told we are the scum of the earth. That we don’t care for others less fortunate. That we don’t care about the NHS, the homeless and those struggling just because we have a different idea as to which party would do the best for this country.

Starblaze Wed 11-Dec-19 23:22:48

It's expressed when people don't grasp their own privilege. My friends father is 82 and has "worked hard" since he was 15. He earns minimum wage. The idea that he is deserving to be a "have not" despite working 50 to 60 hours a week of back breaking menial labour, somehow not working hard enough according to some, is the problem.

Callistemon Wed 11-Dec-19 23:21:04

So if knickas is right and Tory voters either are privately educated or those who drive white vans that could possibly total about 10% of the electorate.

How come the Tories ever get in if only about 10% ever vote for them?

It is stereotyping and rubbish.

I suppose Lib Dem voters wear socks and sandals (the men) and the women have long hair in a bun and wear a droopy hippy style skirt.
That is just as ridiculous.

Doodle Wed 11-Dec-19 23:18:25

tooting29 that’s exactly the same as my mum and dad except my mum left school at 9. Dad was down a coal mine in his youth. Like yours, both life long Conservative voters.