So now we know

If we had a true democracy where the number of votes determined the number of seats the Libdems would have 75 Mps.
Agreed Varian. In 2015 the results were as follows:
Lib Dems - 2.4 million votes and 8 MPs
UKIP - 3.8 million votes and only one MP
SNP - 1.4 million votes and 56 MPs.
(The SNP were and still are hugely over-represented.)

I think you'll agree that UKIP voters have more to complain about than you!
They had more votes in 2015 than Lib Dems in 2019!
I'm so pleased you agree that UKIP should have had at least 75 MPs in 2015 instead of one. According to your calculations of course.

If we had your view of what constitutes a true democracy varian, the conservatives would have had more seats than any other party after the GE called by TM, because they had the greater number of votes.

More votes than Labour had when they one their last GE.

I agree with Varian re FPTP.

If we had a true democracy where the number of votes determined the number of seats the Libdems would have 75 Mps.

I have supported electoral reform for fifty years. FPTP has not served this country well. It is undemocratic for a party which gets a minority of votes to win power.

The LibDems gained an extra1.1.2 million votes, compared with the Tories gain of 0.2 million votes. The LibDems were the only party to increase their share of the vote in every part of GB as the Alliance Party (non-sectarian sister party of the LibDems) did in NI.

My husband has just come in to tell me it is on twitter that the rescue for the steelworks has fallen through. That's 25000 jobs down the pan by his reckoning. Anyone else seen it?

FPTP has served this country for many years varian and you wouldn't have a problem with it if the result of the GE had gone the other way.

The Lib Dems were the only party who said they would not allow brexit, and look how badly they did.

The majority who voted last week voted for parties who were pro-remain or at least promising a confirmatory referendum

Only a minority voted for brexit supporting parties but because we have an undemocratic FPTP voting system the minority won.

Without a second referendum, you have no proof that the majority don't want brexit varian. The only proof you do have is that in 2016 the majority of those who voted, voted for brexit.

aprilrose; so what's your solution to the Irish problem [now also a Scottish problem, too]?

Why should the majority who do not want brexit have to accept it?

new-found*

aprilrose I'm glad you seem to understand what I mean. I'm really not going to go out on the street and glue myself to some public building (or whatever), nor am I likely to take a megaphone and go and demonstrate outside parliament.

I don't agree with your views. I'll listen to sensible arguments and I might even agree with you occasionally.

However, I really am not going to shut up and feel myself healed by a complete charlatan of a Prime Minister. If people come out with bigotry and/or misinformation (lies) based on propaganda, I'll continue to challenge it and I'm not going to forget the shenanigans which got us to where we are now.

I still disagree with Brexit, but it really gets up my nose when people say I should "accept" it. Unfortunately, the ones shouting about "democracy" really don't seem to understand the concept at all. Nevertheless, I accept where we are and accepted the result the day after the referendum. Unfortunately, some people really don't seem to understand that the result of one referendum doesn't remove the democratic right to express an opinion. I find the attitude patronising in the extreme - as though stick a plaster on a graze "heals" everything.

It will be interesting to see what the government does to keep his new-founded voters. Many of them voted Leave and Conservative because they've been neglected and failed by successive governments. Let's see what Johnson comes up with! I don't have a crystal ball, so I'm not going to attempt a prediction.

I think that the most we can hope for is that Tory excesses and persecution are restrained. However I very much doubt it, with this majority. What they say and what they do bare little resemblance.

I'm not putting any differences behind me. This is something I can't just pretend didn't happen. I don't do bitterness and blame, but I'm certainly not going to forget

You know something I feel exactly the same. We are totally different sides of the fence here but that feeling is the same.
I wont forget. I too will be watching like a hawk to make sure Brexit isnt railroaded again ( it already has become a compromise thanks to those who blocked it). I hope that the blockers have not done irreparable damage but I will be watching too (different reasons to you).

I cant see how there can be any real healing at the moment. Boris Johnson made a comment in his winning speech which I think says everything - aside of the fact he asked for healing and asked leavers to extend olive branches he asked the opposition (remain minded) to " Put a sock in the megaphone".

In most places that seems to have happened but on GN it is still to be seen I think.

All I can hope for is that there is a secret Boris in there who now he has got his status and fame will reveal his socialist side. That his desire to be loved and admired will outweigh personal greed and that he will push through reforms and investment especially in the North and be the saviour he would so like to be...and then turn to the world and he can save that. He is mad but lets hope that on his journey he hands out plenty. Oh God we can only wait and see. In the meantime there will be an absolute dog fight for leadership on the Labour Party. I hope Emily Thornbury gets it - she has been homeless, been to secondary modern, lived in a council house got a degree in law - not at Oxbridge (Kent) and became a successfful barrister. We need someone who has been there, and is educated well enough to deal with confidence with leaders throughout the world.

The BBC is supposed to be impartial. It tends, however, to favour the government in office. It's inevitable, really. The Chairman is formally appointed by the Monarch, with the advice of the Secretary of State for a four-year term.

I think they are Iam64. I’m right of centre, I’m not ashamed to admit it, can’t see why I should be. I voted remain in the referendum, but I was very torn, and finally decided remain for economic reasons. I understand perfectly why people voted leave, I was tempted to myself. I’m not a racist, immigration was nothing to do with why I was tempted to vote leave. We all understand the press is mostly right leaning, but I make my mind up primarily from watching the BBC and Sky News and actually listening to what the various interviewees are saying, not from reading newspapers (with the childcare and elderly mother care we do I don’t have time to read a range of newspapers.) Sadly some people simply think everyone else is wrong if they don’t agree with them, but that’s a blinkered view in my opinion. There are a range of views on every subject and particularly on Brexit and now on the election. Anniebach and I often agree, and she describes herself as left of centre. I agree with her that the Labour Party needs to move towards the centre, but I’m not sure it will.

lemongrove, anniebach was one of a small number of life long Labour voters on gransnet saying Labour would never win with Corbyn as leader. I was another and I don't recall Annie and I ever having different opinions on that .

Now we have Jeremy Corbyn saying it was Brexit that caused the problem, nothing to do with his leadership or the fear expressed by those who usually vote Labour about the idea of him in Number 10.
Yes we have a largely right leaning press. Are those who still support him suggesting that the majority are too dim to understand that.

How long have you got Labaik? While they're at it, maybe they could explain why Johnson claims that he couldn't get Brexit through Parliament, when his latest bill passed its second reading … or why he's claiming that he's going to be leading a one-nation government. Oh! And maybe they could explain why he kept very quiet about all the proposed constitutional changes in the manifesto - straight out of a Cummings blog.

I'm not putting any differences behind me. This is something I can't just pretend didn't happen. I don't do bitterness and blame, but I'm certainly not going to forget. There's very little I can do personally, but I shall be watching politics like a hawk and doing whatever I can do help people who are going to suffer.

Can anyone explain why Johnson tried to shut down parliament for 3 weeks to do a Queens speech and yet now he seems to be able to do it in a matter of days? #just curious....

They have food banks in Australia too!!

So pleased that the Tories won - and by a good majority! I was dreading the possibility of Labour winning, and us having to put up with a Prime Minister who has so many shady things in his past (supporting terrorists for one!).

Time to put our differences behind us now. Get on with Brexit. And just wait and see if all the Tory promises are fulfilled. (I'm not a great supporter of Boris - but I think that perhaps I will be proved wrong. Let's hope so!

Stanley Johnson on tv Friday evening was at great pains to convince the viewers that BJ was European, having 4 different strands and why did we think he was called de Pfeffel, if he wasn't European? Funnily, his ancestor's name was von Pfeffel but I guess Stanley thought that de Pfeffel sounded better.

SJ also said that BJ was going to build a bridge with Europe (metaphoric I assume).

Some commentators even think he may tell us that leaving the EU isn't such a good idea after all.