Election result - disaster for working class people

* STV for local councils

mcem it’s not true PR, it’s the Additional Member System for the Parliament and the Single Transferable Vote. While the AMS is a form of PR and better than FPTP it’s far from perfect - huge numbers of votes up here are still ‘wasted‘. Of course, the SNP actually do very well under FPTP at WM

I think Quaint Irene was being ironic

Ironic isn't it? This morning Labour was described as the party of the middle class and Conservative as that of the working class.

Pr by the way. it works well in the European countries that use it, IMO.

FPTP or PR?
The Holyrood government is elected by PR. Therefore there is a much broader spectrum and representatives of several parties are included. Every vote counts.
Some may not realise it but SNP does not have an overall majority.
Therefore there is far more cooperation. SNP plus significant support from Greens have achieved a great deal.
The physical setup is a 'horseshoe' without the adversarial right/left benches of Westminster.
Had this election been PR then SNP would indeed have had far fewer seats but other well-supported parties would have gained. Unfortunately that would include Brexit party MP's but that's the price we'd have to pay for a truly democratic institution.
I voted for FPTP when I had the chance but the majority voted for the near-binary option where vast numbers of votes count for nothing.

My father's theory about northern accents denoting lack of intelligence was that if the speakers were truly intelligent they would have ditched the northern accent and learnt to Talk Proper.

If it's any consolation to posters who live in the north of the country, those of us who live in Essex are also ridiculed.
Double whammy for me as I live in that cultural wasteland called Sarfend ( sarcastic emoji)

But, I have to be fair. The powers that be have given us 4 excellent grammar schools to help us better ourselves ?

If this result is so bad for the "working class" (hate that phrase), why did so many in Labour "safe" seats in the north vote against Labour? Are some GNs suggesting they were not intelligent enough to understand the implications? My experience of those who live in the north of the country is that they are very "canny" and not easily fooled.

Define 'working class'? People who actually work for a living - like 96 percent of us, that is. Unless you're landed gentry, with unearned income, you are working class. Of course, a lot believe they are 'middle class' instead!

Why did the Tories have success? As predicted, anyone who vote to leave has desperately held their nose and voted (yet again) to leave. Just this once, they've voted Tory.

It's what will happen next time (five short years from now) - as we are still 'brexiting' that will be most interesting.

QuaintIrene, I see you didn't mean to offend or patronise other northerners by your comment but I'm another whose immediate response was to feel offended and patronised. Ooooop North indeed. There remains the view that those of us with northern accents aren't as intelligent as those with southern accents, especially those like our new PM who speak with one of those Eton Oxford accents.

That aside - I'm in a former cotton town, surrounded by other former mill towns where our good Labour MPs lost their seats. Our transport links are dire, employment prospects grim and we are satellite towns for the resettlement of asylum seekers because rents are low. Im absolutely happy to share my area with asylum seekers but I'd like my council to be given extra funding to support them

I accept the Tory landslide, though I can't help feeling anxious about further devastation of pubic services. I remember Mrs May's speech when she arrived at number 10 - all one nation conservatism and to coin a phrase, for the many not the few. We all know how that didn't happen.

It is no consolation to have been proved right, that Labour would never win an election with Corbyn and Momentum as its leadership. What next?

The UK had a referendum on whether to adopt PR in 2011. The result was a thumping great decision to keep FPTP. Of course many of the people who voted in that referendum are no longer with us. Perhaps we should have a re-run.

Corbyn and his supporters lost because they thought they were so morally superior and knew so much more than us little people about what we really wanted and what was good for us that there was absolutely no need to consult the people who usually voted Labour or consider those who might consider it.

In fact nothing demonstrated this dictatorial thread that has run through the party in recent years more than their incapacity to realise that democracy means talking to people, finding out what they are looking for in government and then demonstrating to them how the needs they express can be met by their party. This incapacity combined with their capacity to convince themselves that the majority of the population supported their policies, despite evidence day after day that Labour voters, even in their core constituencies found the party, its leader and its policies deeply unpalatable.

They will of course blame it all on Brexit, but as Mandy Rice-Davies memorably said 'They would, wouldn't they?'

You've got it in one Chewbacca ???

Some posters are now losing themselves in ever decreasing circles arguing about percentages regarding the GE.
So amusing...they did the same regards the referendum.....much good that it did them.It seems to be a defence mechanism on GN.Weird.

You're very possibly correct humpty, I wouldn't argue with you. But I'd still like to know whether; if the result had been that Labour or SNP or Lib Dems had won, would there still be this annoyance to put it mildly that the election had been won on the FPTP system? Or is it only an "unfair" system when the other side wins?

The Lib Dems did appallingly varian and Brexit is now a certainty.
That’s entirely down to the useless LP and the Lib Dem's intransigence over the referendum.Serves them right!

Chewbacca surely your %s refer to the percentage of seats, not the % of total votes cast? Also with PR the losing candidate's votes have their 2nd choice given their votes, it's nothing to do with your %s.

Well, in that case*varian*, if you were supporting neither the Conservatives nor the Labour party, proportional representation wouldn't have made any difference to the result for you would it? Lib Dems got 11.6%; SNP got 3.9% and the others less than 1% each. So whichever way the election had gone, it's highly unlikely your party would have got elected.

I have always campaigned for PR and I do not support the Labour Party.

rbnpow, exactly how I felt this morning. But as I was sitting, brain heaving, in the car on the way to work this morning, a light bulb went on. Opiate of the masses. Teach them a system focused on and working for THEM is bad and you have total control. Exactly what has happened. Tory totalitarianism. They can do ANYTHING and the people will still vote for them.

We might as well do away with voting. Just leave them in. It amounts to the same thing.

Having NO SAY at all is actually quite freeing. It stops you from having to think and debate, what is right and what is wrong, with yourself all the time. Just vegetate.

I've been very calm since my light bulb moment. The UK is no longer a democracy. Don't expect it and you won't be disappointed.

And would you still be wanting proportional representation if Labour had won yesterday varian? Or would you have happily accepted the result as it was?

I can't understand it...so worrying. Generations will lay for being duped.

There is no point in lobbying my utterly useless ERG Tory MP. He has had his majority cut by a good LibDem candidate but he can sit there doing damn all for another five years as long as he votes like a sack of potatoes wearing a blue rosette.

Ok varian, maybe that's something you can lobby your MP about but can I ask you; had Labour won this election with such a clear victory as the Conservatives did yesterday, would you be lobbying for proportional representation then? Or would you have just been happy that Labour had won?

Lord Hailsham, formerly Quentin Hogg.