Will the remainers admit defeat?

Defeated or defrauded?

Still at it? Its nearly Christmas .

Still cannot accept the situation here I see? Will remainers admit defeat asked the OP. Well if you seek the answer - look on this thread .... clearly a NO I think.

What on earth do you expect? Should those who voted to remain wear hair shirts for the rest of their lives? It's almost like stamping on somebody's face when he/she is already lying on the ground.

Move on! The UK is leaving the EU. How about seeing some of this positivity and tangible hope for the future those who voted to leave the EU and/or voted Conservative are always bleating on about?

Hope Santa doesn't forget to put a wooden spoon in your stocking aprilrose.

Remoaners will be just that, unless they try to make it work, because if not they are to be a very long time being bitter. It is as it is. Its like me wanting to be young and pretty once more, that ship sailed.

It doesn't seem to matter how many times it is explained that because the referendum was only advisory it could not be challenged in law. Will leave voters admit that this referendum would have been declared nul and void had it been a legal instrument.

To expect remain voters just to accept the result of this flawed referendum because they 'lost' and should just ”get over it” is truly undemocratic.

I'm not bitter. I just want those who voted to leave to get on with telling us all how they're going to improve things.

It really is getting a little tiresome to be called childish names and to told time and time again that I need to get over it. I have. It's over to you now … You own Brexit.

Defeated or defrauded?

Exactly, and that will be the thinking for the next 30 years until all the documents are released and people have time to do a forensic review of what happened. The only thing that will change thinking is to make a success of the coup that caused it. I, for one, do not believe the leave voter capable of that.

Each time an idiot puts up a goading OP they will, no doubt get much the same answer. You cannot just sit there say "nah nah na nah nah we won" and expect people to believe that childishness on an intellectual basis.

As for the name-calling, each time I see the word "remoaner" I think that these people are directly responsible for the statistic of the decade - that we have had a horrifyingly low 0.3 growth in productivity in that time. This is because of the under education and under-investment that has happened while the "remoaner-caller" has run business, run the government and worked in our economy.

I cannot say more than Growstuff does to the inane people who insisted they "won".

Over to you - it's your problem now.

Over to you - it's your problem now

growstuff and GracesGran - I completely agree with you.
To the PM who put the decision to the nation - not one of your best ideas, eh?

WE have to wait until we have left to actually begin to improve things. Three and a half years of remainer led limbo have not been helpful, but still the GB economic growth has been greater than inside the rest of the EU, probably on the basis that many other countries know we are leaving, despite all attempts to stop it.

That said I am sure the first volcano to erupt, the first tsunami , earthquake or the first car crash pile up after 31st January 2020 ( assuming we do get out this time) , no matter where in the world it is, will be blamed on Brexit by the remain minded.

Forget any small fluctuations in currency or similar. They will pounce on those even if fake news.

As for me, I am not counting down now, not until it happens. Then yes, I will be going all out to make Leaving the EU a success for me and my family. I trust that I will still have a job this time next year because Brexit will have secured it ( this I know already). Other benefits will follow I am sure.

I do not understand what remainers think I have to do to make Brexit a success for them? Why is it my job to make it work for them? Get out like the rest of us and make it a success for yourselves. The opportunity is there for anyone who wants it to take up.

If you cannot do that, then maybe you need to do as Boris Johnson has suggested and put a sock in the megaphone.

Sparkling please explain how Remainers are supposed to "make it work". Are we supposed to keep quiet when Johnson does something we disagree with? He's already done several things, such as bringing into law that the transition period must not be extended beyond 31/12/2020.

I should also remind leavers that some people have been moaning and campaigning against the EU since the referendum affirming our joining

"WE have to wait until we have left to actually begin to improve things."

And we come back to the everlasting question. Just what do you think will improve that couldn't be improved by our own government - should they have chosen to do so - within the EU, while also working to improve and change it?

To Aprilrose

I should also remind leavers that some people have been moaning and campaigning against the EU since the referendum affirming our joining

Indeed there were but those who wanted to join/ be part of the EU have constantly told those who have complained about the centralization, the hide bound rules and regulations, the asset stripping of businesses, the allocation of funds from a central point, the increasing central role of an un accountable commission making rules and over riding democracy , they need to accept it and get on with it.

So , now back at ya!

Go on, moan, but remember you must make it work for you, just as I have had to accept it when we were part of the EU.

You want to rejoin? Then wait 45 years and we might have another referendum but of course that would only be advisory wouldnt it? Or would that one be binding because remainers/rejoiners say it is?

I think I said several weeks ago that for the majority of us, the EU has not produced any benefit. Thats why Leave won the referendum.

aprilrose the Commission is accountable to its members. Each state elects its MEPs. they in turn select the Commissioners. We have had an equal share in the decision making process and, along with Germany and France have been one of the more powerful nations. As a respected nation our voice has been heeded despite the machinations of Farage and his ilk.

Some of those rules and regulations, such as employee rights are going to be overturned by the present government and, I believe, that process has already started.
There are many part time employees who have benefitted in the past - such as paid holidays and access to employment pension schemes.

The EU does not asset strip - companies in member countries may well do that but takeovers by and sales of companies to foreign countries can always be stopped, except the UK government has been reluctant to do that. The UK government has also allowed the sale of utilities and rail to foreign companies some of which are owned by their home states. Witness Cobham PLC which is about to be sold to an American private equity group. You may not know that private equity groups buy companies and then sell off the component parts for a profit.

Cost of medicines have already gone up. I hope Scotland gets independent status - we will move across the border.

Oldbat I will apply for a Scottish passport.

The EU doesn't asset strip businesses. Where did you pick up that snippet of fiction aprilrose?

You own this mess now - just get on with it! No excuses!

Let those Pollyannas tell us what tangible benefits we are all going to be enjoying. All that extra money for the NHS! Extra police and prisons! Fewer foreign people! Can’t wait- perhaps you could add to the list so we can all “get behind” this marvellous project.! As for those extra jobs directly because of Brexit - extra border guards, extra civil servants, extra advertising to convince us all that extra paperwork and expense is worth it, Not to mention barbed wire for Northern Ireland, , will definitely be outweighed by the Brexit brain drain of medics, scientists, wealth creating HM finance houses etc relocating to EU. Yes it is happening I know of many such cases. Also the decline in any remaining industries - why would any company import car components to the U.K. to be assembled here? But hey we’re leading the EU in food banks .

And still no sympathy for those people that have lost their jobs already or people that are losing their families because they're emigrating due to Brexit. And if peace in Europe since 1945 isn't a befit of being in the EU well, I can't think of a greater one....

Whatever the status of the referendum, a majority of MP's signed up for article 50 enshrining it into law thereby making it legal?!

Labaik, there was never any sympathy in the last 45 years for those who lost their jobs when the EU paid large grants and subsidies to firms to relocate to other EU countries - so why should I have sympathy the other way round now?

As for keeping the peace. No, I dont agree. Peace has been kept by NATO and that has and will continue to be paid for by GB and the US overall. I find the idea of an EU army diabolical to be truthful. It smacks of the rise of Germania.
But lets not go there.

No doubt you have no intention of understanding the plight of all those who have suffered as the EU tightened its centralised grip on comerce and distributed the taxes of others in largesse to areas it favoured whilst cutting out others in need. I had a belly full of the EU and its hamstringing regulations and protectionism and its largess to everyone except those whose jobs it took to give to others in the continental EU - for what good it has done. Still those countries have the highest youth unemployment rates. Still they are beholden to the EU because their currencies are smacked to the ground too - ask Spain, Italy and Greece what that is like.

As for the Pymannas who you somehow connect with the NHS and the Welfare state. It seems only remainers in my experience have tied those together with being in the EU. What is it your security blanket?

For me the NHS was a non issue. I have my own views about our wonderful NHS ( not). My experience of the NHS over the years we have been in the EU is not one of any comfort.

I will not engage in any dialogue about the NHS because for me the NHS is something I am trying to protect my family from as a result of my experiences.

Fortunately most of us are in good health and have not needed its services and I hope to keep it that way. I have nothing but fear of being at the mercy of the NHS. Throwing money at it is just throwing more good money to a bad service in my opinion. I stress that is my opinion and experience.

aprilrose Never mind, dear, hopefully some kind of sanity will be restored to your thinking and posts in the New Year.