What now for Labour Party ?

I agree growstuff

As for those who are criticising Dianne, she's very popular in her Hackney constituency because of her unbiased support for ehtnic minorities.

I think it should be the best person for the job. Centre Labour.

Personally I think Hillary Benn, but that's just because I think he gives a good argument.

Nomore lefties please.

I don't doubt that fennel, but she's too controversial to be leader and she doesn't seem to be in the best of health.

Labour has five years to regroup. There are loads of MPs who have never sought the limelight, but slog their guts out in their constituencies and in committees. Most people have probably never heard of them, but it's not a bad thing if they don't bring baggage with them.

With the exception of Keir Starmer, I can't see any of the current shadow cabinet being up for the job.

In some ways, Brexit might make it easier for Labour. The way the majority of Labour seats voted to leave while the majority of Labour voters voted to remain was a conundrum which could never be solved.

Whoever takes over will have to work with a "fait accompli". Let the Conservatives "own" Brexit, while Labour holds them to account for attempts to change workers' and consumer rights, etc. Keep challenging them on the NHS, education and welfare, cuts to taxation and local councils, etc. Do it professionally and maturely, backed by facts.

In five years time, people will know what Brexit has meant for them and Labour can still make a case to support a fairer and more equal society, without a Damocles' sword hanging over them.

What's your definition of a "leftie" Nessa?

I've been accused of being a leftie on here because my views are generally to the left of some posters on here. I identify as generally left of centre and very socially left wing, but I don't think I've ever been a "leftie". I guess it depends on one's perspective.

The Labour party has completely lost touch with its roots. It is now the party of the metropolotan elite, not the workers in those northern and midland constituencies that used to be its life blood.

Look how solidly London is held by Labour while its natural voters in the industrial heartlands are walking away.

Look at those at the top of the Labour party, predominantly the privately educated children of professional parents. Only 7% of children in the UK are privately educated, why are they so over represented in the upper reaches of the Labour party, if not because their main breeding ground is London and its suburbs.

In this last election the contempt many metropolitan supporters had for what was once the core vote was obvious and has a long history. Read the political threads on Gransnet before this election. Remember Gordon Brown being overheard calling a Labour supporter who had challenged him over the economy and immigration a "bigoted woman". It can be seen in the background of Labour MPs. In 1964 nearly 40% of Labour MPs had worked as manual labourers. In 2010 it was 10% and I would bet it is even lower now, The last leader with any pretensions to represent the core vote was Neil Kinnock, whose father was a miner. Blair, Brown, Milliband, Corbyn are all the children of professional parents and either privately educated or went to top state schools (as did their children).

If Labour is to make a recovery, its leadership must start once again to represent those it sees as its natural constituency and treat them like sensible and intelligent people capable of contributing to debates on policy and listen to them.

The current shadow cabinet isn't made up of privately educated people. Miliband didn't go to a top state school. Corbyn went to a second-rate private school and, in all honesty, would probably have been better in a comprehensive, but the education system was different when he was young.

MOnica There are some real pockets of poverty in London and I certainly wouldn't call Liverpool and Manchester (both solidly Labour) elite.

I actually think the idea that Labour is made up of champagne socialists is at least partly a media-created myth.

I was bored, so I went through the list of the retired shadow cabinet:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_(United_Kingdom)

I might have missed one or two, but the only ones who had a private education were:

Corbyn, who went to a second rate private school and dropped out of higher education.

McDonnell, who (as discussed ad nauseum) spent a couple of years at a second rate Catholic boarding school.

The only one who spent any time at a recognised public school was Barry Gardiner, who was at Haileybury.

Some of them went to grammar schools, but that would have been normal for bright children, when those people were younger.

Miliband went to Haverstock Hill comp. As I remember, from my Chalk Farm living days, it attracted a lot of the offspring of the Hampstead intelligensia.

I reached my conclusions by looking at what happened to the red bits on the map on Thursday. Of course there are pockets of poverty in London but, as you say 'pockets' Mainly to live in London you need to be well-educated and well-heeled. Manchester has always had a liberal (not party) left leaning intellectual class, going right back to the 19th century, with famous authors like Mrs Gaskell and her circle forming part of it.

I am certainly not suggesting they are champagne drinking, except, possibly Geoffrey Robinson, but I am sure they have several beer conoisseurs.

MacDonald has said the loss of the election was not Corbyn , he is ignoring what many, many candidates said when thry knocked doors.

Just listening to a man from Burnley,he said Corbyn will stay on until he finds another Corbyn. I agree with him.

MOnica My daughter has lived in Manchester for ten years and I still have contacts on Merseyside. I can assure you that the majority of Liverpudlians and Mancs are not part of any intellectual class.

I spent a couple of days at Haverstock Hill in 1982, when I was doing teaching practice. The Milibands were pupils there at the time, although I had obviously never heard of them. The Hampstead intelligentsia kept themselves well-hidden. It was a better than average comp (when compared with some others I visited), but no better.

Sadly I feel that much of what M0nica states in her post @21:34 today has great truth within it. Indeed, Len McCluskey in an open letter to the Unite Union members has stated very similar in regard to the Parliamentary Labour Party.

However, the Unite activists, which McCluskey was undoubtedly speaking on behalf of, are those which are engaged on a daily basis with representing, supporting and assisting members in workplaces throughout the country. In those roles, those activists I have always found are normally of hard-left political views within that organisation and in their dealings within the Labour party which can be on many levels.

At the opposite end of the spectrum within the Parliamentary Labour Party, you have the membership which Monica so well describes, who have had an academic upbringing and education with very many never having any experience of manual working employment or any employment experience whatsoever outside of politics. They are largely in their political views the "blairite" or right wing of the Parliamentary partyandcwould wish to see a return of such a leadership regime.

McCluskey's open letter to the Unite Union Membership has undoubtedly sounded the "Opening salvo" in what will become the major debate in regard to the future of the Parliamentary Labour Party which will be undertaken by the broader Labour movement in the country.

What it is worth, my feelings are that the divisions between the left-wing and right of the Labour Party are now so great that it is unbridgable. Evidence to the above can be witnessed by media reports that Rebeca Long-Bailey no longer wishes to become the leader of the Parliamentary Labour Party, and that after building strong ties with the trades unions following a year of attending very many of their conferences and having a strong presence within the TUC.

It may well be that Long-Bailey has also drawn the conclusion that the rifts within the Parliamentary Labour Party and its constituency organisations cannot be reconciled and that is the reason for her decision.

Below is a link to a Guardian report on the McCluskey statement:-
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/inside-labours-campaign-behind

With MacDonald meeting Momentum on Sunday and Corbyn
has now said he will not stand down for several months, the next leader will be chosen by them. More of the same from a young female from the shadow cabinet with Corbyn and
MacDonald calling the shots.

Apologies should be "and would wish" in my above post, as replacement to "partyandcwould wish."

FWIW I think Long-Bailey would have been a disaster as leader.

Do you honestly think McCluskey is "in touch" with "ordinary working people" (whoever they are)? I'm afraid I don't. Many of the most vulnerable people in our society aren't union members. They're working in the gig economy, have been forced into becoming self-employed, are unemployed (or in temporary, unstable jobs) or are disabled/ill and can't work. McCluskey doesn't represent them and doesn't represent people in other unions.

I actually think McCluskey has pulled the Labour Party strings for too long and would do people a favour by retiring.

What do you think are the grievances of the ex-Labour red wall constituencies, which should be addressed? What is it they dislike about Corbyn? Don't tell me they give a stuff about anti-semiticism.

growstuff The power of elites is greater than their numbers. Manchester was the centre of an industrial elite and the centre of economic studies development. I recommend this link. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Liberalism

Manchester University can trace its origins to 1824.

If that really happens Anniebach we're in for a rough ride as a country. It might not happen in our lifetimes, but a new political party will appear. Labour will be shooting itself in the foot.

Mcclusky should get together with this new government. The mastermind behind the Tory win was Cummings, who believes in getting Industry and Commerce to their new voters who gave then this majority. He is a Geordie who will help these new conservatives to vote C again by giving them jobs not handouts (like Labour did).Cummings knew working class voters despised Corbyn and used this to good advantage with his Lets get Brexit done slogan. So The Times informs me!

Union membership is now low in this country and mostly unions are not representative of the working population as a whole and they assuma and act is if they have an instrumental role in representing British workers, which they do not actually have.

Anniebach, in regard to your post @22:52 today, it will be the membership of the whole Labour movement that will decide the future of the Parliamentary Labour Party and not Corbyn or McDonald. That fact is laid out within the structural constitution and rules of both the Labour party and wider movement.

As someone who claims to have held a fifty year membership of the Labour party, you should be well aware of the above.

That structure and rules have not changed since the conception of a Parliamentary Labour Party was brought forward over one hundred years ago.

Well, we now have the male equivalent of Viv in Years and Years (played by Emma Thompson) and a man who played the President of Ukraine was elected the president of Ukraine. In the US they have a game show star as President so I suggest we all look back at recent films for a winning leader of the Labour Party and suggest the LP elect her/him or we could do that strange thing and give the LP members some time to make up their own minds.

When i was living near Haverstock Hill it was considered a bit of a rough school. That was through the 1980's

I doubt many Hampstead intelligentsia went there.

MONica Do you have personal experience of Manchester? I know a lot about its history. Have you ever been to the People's Museum in Manchester? Have you ever read any of the union archives? I don't need to Google. My daughter has an MA in history from Manchester Uni and I've seen some of the sources she used for her thesis. I know that Manchester was the centre of nineteenth century freed trade and was the driving force for electoral reform, but there's more to the story than that. The unions were also very active. Today, Manchester has many students (true), but it also has many "working class".

Liverpool has never been a centre of liberalism in the same way and has a very different history, but it's still solidly Labour.

pinkquartz Yes, it was a bit rough, whatever kind of image it might have had from the outside.

you honestly wonder who would want the job.