Tory minister calls for introduction of social care insurance

Hetty 58 and Tooting29, I agree with you. I'm currently looking after my 95-year-old mother. I'm 70 myself. It's ludicrous. If she were in a home, her savings and house would be gone within a couple of years and this is money that should go to my children. I think the NHS should be cradle-to-grave where we all pay more taxes and old people's homes are state run.

Agreed, HettyMaud. I'm very worried for my children.

They'll be working until they're 75 and can't be expected to look after us!

I agree with you Hetty58 that it should be a tax rather than an insurance policy.

PS. Thank you for posting the graph.

I am not of the mind that says that the value of a person's property should not come into the equation if they have left their won home for good. It does not seem unreasonable to me that some of the value contained therein should be put towards care. I do not worry overmuch about not being able to leave a good legacy to children. What I mind very much about is that I am resident in the family home and all the rules say that the house should be safe - but how else to pay the £50k per year top-up?

Rather than taxing workers more why don't we dig deeply into the foreign aid budget. Time enough to send money out of the country when we have no social issues here.

Simple answers to that one Ngaio. The foreign aid budget wouldn't cover social care - nowhere near - and foreign aid is used to maintain the UK's reputation in the world, in the hope that they will adopt our way of thinking, not want to go to war against us and buy our exports.

I agree with you Luckygirl. Maybe I should put on my tin hat here, but I thought May/Hammond's idea before the 2017 election wasn't that bad. I still don't understand why Labour opposed it because people would have been left with more money than they are now, even if the house had to be sold. Those who would have paid most would have been the wealthiest.

Some of us have been very lucky, others have made huge sacrifices to own a home. Perhaps they've worked overtime, gone without a car or holidays, stuck to a limited budget and spent far less on celebrations - just to pay a mortgage. They'd be justified in feeling huge resentment about losing their house.

Did you know that only the money in banks and property is taken into account? You could own a Rolls Royce, antique furniture, priceless art, racehorses, anything you fancy, in fact and none of it is considered.

growstuff, I'm unsure that you really understood the proposed changes completely (as many people didn't). They applied only to care costs (not residential 'rent', food etc., the majority of fees) and they stated new 'rules' for home care.

Those being cared for at home atm need a minimum income guarantee to cover bills etc. They are charged for care according to income and savings but the value of their home is not taken into account. The new proposals intended to change that, with the property being sold, after death, to repay the loan.

People would not have been left with more money. Everyone would risk losing their home and the money 'left' would soon go on residential 'non care' fees. So, whether care was residential or at home, it was a far worse deal than at present. That's why Labour opposed it!

I feel that there should be National Care Service running alongside NHS as previously suggested by Peter Hain.It should be supported by a care tax and should be applied to everyone regardless of age who is eligible to pay tax.Their will always be resentment if homeowners and savers have to pay and others don't.

I agree Mal44.

Money for Social Care should have been ring fenced. The councils spend it elsewhere.

Perhaps on their pensions? The office/managerial Social Care workers retire about 55 and have a good pension and meanwhile
the elderly and disabled go without the care they need.
This is never really questioned.

I don't have a problem with taxation being increased, but I do have an issue with sudden shifts in the goalposts when people have made plans based on what they were expecting (reasonably) to happen.

If an insurance scheme were to come in now, how would someone who has retired pay it? As we know, the older you get, the higher premiums go, and it would cost a fortune for older people to pay for enough insurance to cover care.

As has been said, we have already paid tax and NI for decades, and many of us have also had to make up a massive shortfall in our pensions, so it seems to me very unfair that we should have this dropped onto us on top of everything else.

Grany23
I did not mean to Insult and am sorry you took as you say my well intentioned post that way. I did not know you live in Scotland which of course has a different system. I do not k ow that system. I know the system extremely well in England due to the fact that my mother passed away mid year after a short stay in a nursing home. We had to deal with the system for my father and found it easy to navigate. The LA was extremely helpful and efficient. My father remains in his own home and had my mother still been alive, they paid the full contribution and would have continued to do so.

Hetty58 Some of us worked like stink to own our own home and delayed having a family until we could afford it - and then got divorced, were very ill and lost our home, so we end up living in rented accommodation. Don't be so smug!!! :-(

My children will inherit nothing. Does that make me a failure? How do you think I feel about being such a loser?

Why the heck should I care whether your children inherit anything? You don't care about people like me.

BTW Yes, I did understand what was being proposed.

Don’t be so hard on yourself Growstuff- I’m sure your children would rather have you well than an inheritance!

Growstuff, why so defensive? I wasn't intending to be 'smug' and, actually, I do care about people like you. I care a lot about everybody.

I was simply trying to answer your question, along with it's inaccurate assumptions:

'I still don't understand why Labour opposed it because people would have been left with more money than they are now, even if the house had to be sold.'

As I said, people would not be left with more money, that's just what it was hoped would be believed.

I know very well that life is a lottery. I agree with Mal44 that care should be paid for through taxation, rather than insurance. It's the fairest way to do it.

If we had voluntary euthanasia then this would be much less of a problem.

On another thread (shh..don’t tell GNHQ) there is general support for the NZ vote on this. How about some joined up thinking? Most of us would rather stay in our own homes with support but when it gets to the stage we can’t look after ourselves (especially with personal hygiene) I know what I’d prefer to a Care Home.

Anyone agree with me?

I don't have a problem with our home and our son's potential inheritance being used for our care if it's needed I think that some form of insurance scheme is a good idea.

I think it's unrealistic for anyone to expect to receive an inheritance or what they think is their full inheritance if their parents need full time care.

I do agree with you though Doodledog that for many of the older generation it would be much harder, if not impossible for them to start making provision for all their needs and that should be taken into account.

Not leaving an inheritance for your children doesn't make you a failure growstuff. All that you have given and will continue to give in your lifetime is what matters.

I want voluntary euthanasia.

I live in constant pain and illness and when I can't remain at home I want to end my life not go to the hell of a Care Home.
I am just not a person who could cope with it at all.
That it saves the Govt money is neither here nor there to me but a bonus for them.
I have not been well enough to earn enough to buy a home and I do feel a failure.

You're not a failure pinkquartz. Success in our lifetime shouldn't be measured by material gain, it's what we do with our lives that matters, not how much money we've made.

Living with illness and constant pain is an achievement in itself.

Thank you Smileless this is one of those days it really does feel like an achievement. It is kind of you to respond and appreciated.

pinkquartzyou're welcome. Courage should never be underestimated

I'm all for voluntary euthanasia too. I don't see why we should be compelled to suffer to the very end. We outlive our natural lifespans by a long way.

There was a lady in Mum's care home who was bed bound and seemed to be in constant pain. She called out 'Hello?, hello?, hello?'whenever I walked past her door. She was always wheeled into the shower room on a Wednesday afternoon, screamed her way through being washed etc. then was wheeled back to her bed, wrapped in towels. Her pleading eyes said it all.